4 ms·

2021 HDMI is a disaster. I'm using a Sony flagship TV, a PC, and a popular Sony 7.1 receiver. I had to update my graphics card to get 4k120 444 10bit and eARC.

by wyager 5y ago

2021 HDMI is a disaster. I'm using a Sony flagship TV, a PC, and a popular Sony 7.1 receiver. I had to update my graphics card to get 4k120 444 10bit and eARC. Only eARC is totally broken - audio often doesn't work at all without restarting PC/TV/receiver a few times. And then once it "works" it will randomly cut out for 5-10 seconds at a time. HDR on windows is also totally broken. It was a nightmare to get something that correctly rendered full 10bit HDR video (I ended up having to use MPC-HC with madvr and a ton of tweaking). You also have to turn off windows HDR support and use D3D exclusive mode. After updating my TV to get DRR, the audio for this setup stopped working. Linux also has zero HDR support. Didn't have luck getting 5.1 or 7.1 working either. MacOS can at least handle HDR on Apple displays - not sure if it works on normal displays. Haven't tried surround sound.

plus 5y ago
Were you able to get 4k120Hz 444 working on Linux? What GPU do you have? I can only do 4k60 444 or 4k120 420 on my LG C1 connected to my Radeon RX 6900xt.
- wyager 5y ago
  I don't remember, but I had to sidegrade from a 2070Ti to a 3060Ti to get HDMI2.1 to get 4k120 444.
MayeulC 5y ago
Not to be offensive, but -- first world problems: where did you find a new graphics carts, for starters? Now, a bit more on a serious tone: this is all bleeding edge. And combining multiple recent development together is a recipe for corner cases and untested combinations. That said, did you try Variable Refresh Rate with that? Bur reduction technologies (backlight strobing) are also interesting, but thankfully they require little software interaction (for now).
zamadatix 5y ago
> HDR on windows is also totally broken. It was a nightmare to get something that correctly rendered full 10bit HDR video (I ended up having to use MPC-HC with madvr and a ton of tweaking). You also have to turn off windows HDR support and use D3D exclusive mode. After updating my TV to get DRR, the audio for this setup stopped working. Odd, I've got 3 different HDR monitors across 2 Windows computers (one Nvidia, one AMD) and also 2 different HDR TVs occasionally connected to each and I've never had to turn HDR off or do tweaking in madvr to get it to look right. Having HDR disabled in Windows globally makes me wonder if the adjustments you're talking about are referring to tonemapping HDR content to an exclusive SDR output. One thing I will say is TVs default to some god awful HDR settings. Well I guess you could say that about picture settings on TVs in general but it's even worse for HDR. It took me a solid 40 minutes to figure out how to get the picture settings for a Samsung Q900R to display HDR properly instead of "worlds darkest picture mode" (turns out the same values take different actual effect depending on the type of source you identify it as and "PC" is not what you want even though you specify HDR picture mode elsewhere and it detects an HDR signal...). Also for SDR content you'll need to adjust the SDR bridghtness slider depending on the actual brightness of your display.
- Strom 5y ago
  > turns out the same values take different actual effect depending on the type of source you identify it as and "PC" is not what you want That is a subtle pitfall indeed. LG also has this, where you can configure the icon (a small image) of your HDMI inputs in the UI. Turns out changing the icon to a PC will also change the signal processing algorithms.
- wyager 5y ago
  My suspicion is you're not actually getting HDR video, maybe unless you're using a built-in windows video player. You can look on home theater forums for the work people have to do to get actual 10bit video working on windows and I've never once seen it be plug-and-play. By default it will either take 10bit content and truncate/dither to 8bit, or totally fuck up the transfer function so the video looks like ass. Honestly if you're happy with what you have now I encourage you not to validate that you're getting proper 10b HDR because it's very frustrating. The only devices that might be plug-and-play are current-gen game consoles.
  - zamadatix 5y ago
    I don't see why I wouldn't be: - Monitor says it is receiving a 10 bit HDR-ST2084 signal https://i.imgur.com/IFa5Y1e.jpg https://i.imgur.com/IFa5Y1e.jpg - Windows says it is sending a 10 bit HDR signal to a monitor reporting a peak brightness of 1566 (which is correct, HDR1400 certified with an advertised peak of ~1600) https://i.imgur.com/WatJ6gP.jpg https://i.imgur.com/WatJ6gP.jpg - Windowed applications that support HDR (e.g. Krita or Chrome or MPC-BE w/ madvr) are detecting the display as linear HDR and using FP16 backing. Note on this display the SDR brightness was manually adjusted via the slider in Windows to be near 500 https://i.imgur.com/dD8HvfC.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/dD8HvfC.jpeg - YouTube detects and defaults to serving the HDR versions of content, in this test case smpte2084/rec.2020 https://i.imgur.com/HI2fPKr.png https://i.imgur.com/HI2fPKr.png - The peak brightness I actually see in the HDR brightness test video is bang on the ~1500 nit mark I'd expect for a small brightness window (this image was taken with parameters to match almost exactly what I see in real life in terms of visibility on the brighter test cells https://i.imgur.com/z4nW5on.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/z4nW5on.jpeg) - P3 images with content in the extended range stand out perfectly clear https://raw.githubusercontent.com/codelogic/wide-gamut-tests/master/P3-sRGB-blue.jpg https://raw.githubusercontent.com/codelogic/wide-gamut-tests... When HDR first landed with Windows in 2018 I remember it was a crapshoot of driver/windows build as to whether the transfer function was correct and there was a longstanding bug where if a video was particularly bright for too long all HDR content would look like a god awful tie-die until you bounced the display. Since ~late 2019 I haven't seen either of those and I've added a few more HDR monitors, quite literally just plug it in, enable hdr, make sure the monitor went into HDR mode, adjust SDR brightness, and off to the races. Ironically when I got an Xbox Series X about this time 2020 it took a few TV firmware updates to a Q900R before HDR started working properly with very similar kinds of issues as when Windows first got HDR. I just got a 16" M1 Max with an HDR screen. There it seems to work out of the box (with Safari at least) but I had to tell YouTube a fake Windows Chrome user agent to get it to serve HDR content. I've heard there have been some kernel crashing issues with HDR on it but other than loading up a quick YouTube test to see how the screen was (great!) I haven't really messed with HDR on it. I do recommend disabling TrueTone and auto brightness, in particular TrueTone's effects are really amplified on HDR content and can ruin it completely depending on the room you are in. If you ever want a cool demo to show off your setup Krita in HDR mode allows you to paint the absolute extremes of brightness and color gamut in large swatches. It can make for quite the effect when comparing it to a good calibrated sRGB SDR monitor.

by wyager 5y ago

plus 5y ago

Were you able to get 4k120Hz 444 working on Linux? What GPU do you have? I can only do 4k60 444 or 4k120 420 on my LG C1 connected to my Radeon RX 6900xt.

wyager 5y ago
I don't remember, but I had to sidegrade from a 2070Ti to a 3060Ti to get HDMI2.1 to get 4k120 444.

MayeulC 5y ago

Not to be offensive, but -- first world problems: where did you find a new graphics carts, for starters? Now, a bit more on a serious tone: this is all bleeding edge. And combining multiple recent development together is a recipe for corner cases and untested combinations. That said, did you try Variable Refresh Rate with that? Bur reduction technologies (backlight strobing) are also interesting, but thankfully they require little software interaction (for now).

zamadatix 5y ago

> HDR on windows is also totally broken. It was a nightmare to get something that correctly rendered full 10bit HDR video (I ended up having to use MPC-HC with madvr and a ton of tweaking). You also have to turn off windows HDR support and use D3D exclusive mode. After updating my TV to get DRR, the audio for this setup stopped working. Odd, I've got 3 different HDR monitors across 2 Windows computers (one Nvidia, one AMD) and also 2 different HDR TVs occasionally connected to each and I've never had to turn HDR off or do tweaking in madvr to get it to look right. Having HDR disabled in Windows globally makes me wonder if the adjustments you're talking about are referring to tonemapping HDR content to an exclusive SDR output. One thing I will say is TVs default to some god awful HDR settings. Well I guess you could say that about picture settings on TVs in general but it's even worse for HDR. It took me a solid 40 minutes to figure out how to get the picture settings for a Samsung Q900R to display HDR properly instead of "worlds darkest picture mode" (turns out the same values take different actual effect depending on the type of source you identify it as and "PC" is not what you want even though you specify HDR picture mode elsewhere and it detects an HDR signal...). Also for SDR content you'll need to adjust the SDR bridghtness slider depending on the actual brightness of your display.

Strom 5y ago
> turns out the same values take different actual effect depending on the type of source you identify it as and "PC" is not what you want That is a subtle pitfall indeed. LG also has this, where you can configure the icon (a small image) of your HDMI inputs in the UI. Turns out changing the icon to a PC will also change the signal processing algorithms.
wyager 5y ago
My suspicion is you're not actually getting HDR video, maybe unless you're using a built-in windows video player. You can look on home theater forums for the work people have to do to get actual 10bit video working on windows and I've never once seen it be plug-and-play. By default it will either take 10bit content and truncate/dither to 8bit, or totally fuck up the transfer function so the video looks like ass. Honestly if you're happy with what you have now I encourage you not to validate that you're getting proper 10b HDR because it's very frustrating. The only devices that might be plug-and-play are current-gen game consoles.
- zamadatix 5y ago
  I don't see why I wouldn't be: - Monitor says it is receiving a 10 bit HDR-ST2084 signal https://i.imgur.com/IFa5Y1e.jpg https://i.imgur.com/IFa5Y1e.jpg - Windows says it is sending a 10 bit HDR signal to a monitor reporting a peak brightness of 1566 (which is correct, HDR1400 certified with an advertised peak of ~1600) https://i.imgur.com/WatJ6gP.jpg https://i.imgur.com/WatJ6gP.jpg - Windowed applications that support HDR (e.g. Krita or Chrome or MPC-BE w/ madvr) are detecting the display as linear HDR and using FP16 backing. Note on this display the SDR brightness was manually adjusted via the slider in Windows to be near 500 https://i.imgur.com/dD8HvfC.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/dD8HvfC.jpeg - YouTube detects and defaults to serving the HDR versions of content, in this test case smpte2084/rec.2020 https://i.imgur.com/HI2fPKr.png https://i.imgur.com/HI2fPKr.png - The peak brightness I actually see in the HDR brightness test video is bang on the ~1500 nit mark I'd expect for a small brightness window (this image was taken with parameters to match almost exactly what I see in real life in terms of visibility on the brighter test cells https://i.imgur.com/z4nW5on.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/z4nW5on.jpeg) - P3 images with content in the extended range stand out perfectly clear https://raw.githubusercontent.com/codelogic/wide-gamut-tests/master/P3-sRGB-blue.jpg https://raw.githubusercontent.com/codelogic/wide-gamut-tests... When HDR first landed with Windows in 2018 I remember it was a crapshoot of driver/windows build as to whether the transfer function was correct and there was a longstanding bug where if a video was particularly bright for too long all HDR content would look like a god awful tie-die until you bounced the display. Since ~late 2019 I haven't seen either of those and I've added a few more HDR monitors, quite literally just plug it in, enable hdr, make sure the monitor went into HDR mode, adjust SDR brightness, and off to the races. Ironically when I got an Xbox Series X about this time 2020 it took a few TV firmware updates to a Q900R before HDR started working properly with very similar kinds of issues as when Windows first got HDR. I just got a 16" M1 Max with an HDR screen. There it seems to work out of the box (with Safari at least) but I had to tell YouTube a fake Windows Chrome user agent to get it to serve HDR content. I've heard there have been some kernel crashing issues with HDR on it but other than loading up a quick YouTube test to see how the screen was (great!) I haven't really messed with HDR on it. I do recommend disabling TrueTone and auto brightness, in particular TrueTone's effects are really amplified on HDR content and can ruin it completely depending on the room you are in. If you ever want a cool demo to show off your setup Krita in HDR mode allows you to paint the absolute extremes of brightness and color gamut in large swatches. It can make for quite the effect when comparing it to a good calibrated sRGB SDR monitor.