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Many other car makers do this too. My Volvo has a remote start feature installed (that I paid for in buying the car) that is not accessible without enrollment i

Many other car makers do this too. My Volvo has a remote start feature installed (that I paid for in buying the car) that is not accessible without enrollment in a (pretty much useless otherwise) monthly subscription service. It's flat out criminal considering that I could have just bought the device with a remote at Auto Zone for 1/4 of the price (that also doesn't allow the auto maker to track/log each time I use it and where I am when I use it).

Loughla 5y ago
Yeah - not sure why Toyota is getting hammered for this. Subaru does this as well. You can get app enabled remote start from your phone, if you buy their subscription service. I love Subaru, but that is a trash system.
- lastofthemojito 5y ago
  That feels like apples-and-oranges to me if you're talking about a smartphone app feature. A smartphone app has to be regularly upgraded to pay nice with new OS versions, has to have back-end servers, etc. Toyota is disabling remote start functionality between the key fob and the vehicle if the vehicle doesn't have a subscription. I'm not surprised a smartphone app requires a subscription but I am surprised and disappointed that a feature on a car's key fob does.
  - 14 5y ago
    I too am highly disappointed in Toyota here. A remote start is something you can buy at any auto store and have installed by a mechanic for a couple hundred bucks. Will they block people from going that route now? They charge such a premium for their cars and this just seems petty.
    - michaelmrose 5y ago
      The logical next step would be to ensure that you can't do that in the name of security or if you CAN do it then the "partner" that sells that service has to pay more than you would for the privilege of being allowed on the "platform".
- criddell 5y ago
  I have remote start on my Subaru and I think it's essentially this: https://www.subarupartspros.com/sku/h001sfl300.html https://www.subarupartspros.com/sku/h001sfl300.html On that page it says: > This Genuine Subaru Accessory is an alternative for customers who do not enroll in STARLINK Safety and Security Plus.
- acomjean 5y ago
  Subaru at this point is a sub brand of Toyota. (they're part of the "Toyota Group" as of last year)
  - ejj28 5y ago
    Toyota owns 20% of Subaru, and Subaru is also invested in Toyota. From what I understand being an affiliate in the Toyota Group is not remotely the same as them being a sub brand of Toyota.
bserge 5y ago
> I could have just bought the device with a remote at Auto Zone for 1/4 of the price But you didn't? I hope your realize at least half of the responsibility is on you as a consumer. You pay for and enable these idiotic ideas.
- winternett 5y ago
  Incorrect, all of their cars come without the option. Buying an alternate car just because of one corrupt feature is not reasonable nor effective as a protest, many new cars now leverage this tactic and there is no real choice because they get away with it based on leverage. The responsibility is on regulators, not me as a consumer.
  - brokenmachine 5y ago
    When the regulators have failed, the only option is to vote with your wallet. I'm sticking to older cars without this nonsense.
Fezzik 5y ago
Subaru has the same thing on their new cars - subscribe annually to Starlink or no remote start for you! I live in a winter wonderland where remote start would be a dream but no way I am paying a cent for this feature. I’ll have to look in to the after market options.
- nuccy 5y ago
  VW diesel cars can be equipped with Webasto (auxiliary heater which burns diesel). One gets a remote (in my experience reaching up to 500 meters) which can be used to start this heater along with car's climate control. The advantage is that it consumes 1/3-1/5 of what an idling engine does, while heating interior and engine coolant much faster. The disadvantage is that it consumes battery charge, but to counteract that the car is equiped with 30-50% bigger battery. Though this was never a problem for me, from my experience on 94Ah battery it can run for hours without any effect on engine starting, while heating the car in some 10-15 minutes when it is below freezing outside.
  - baq 5y ago
    and, in the models that use the engine coolant as a working fluid, your engine is heated up to a cozy operating temperature right from the start, so you end up about even on fuel.
  - gambiting 5y ago
    So in my Volvo XC60 T8, the car just came with a Webasto preinstalled from factory, it was standard fit on all models(in 2020 in UK anyway). But you can only start it from the app, they don't give you a separate fob like the one you can buy from Webasto, so you have to pay Volvo's subscription to use it.
- edmundsauto 5y ago
  You’re not interested in paying for something that provides you with very clear value? So instead you wil go pay money for a different system to bolt on? I don’t mean to criticize, but I have to admit that I cannot empathize.
Phenomenit 5y ago
I think some of the reasoning behind the fee is that there's a simcard in the car that needs to be payed for and if you opt out then they don't have to pay for it. I have the same service and I can't live without the remotly started heating so for me it's worth every krona.
- winternett 5y ago
  A remote RF device could do that without the Sim card, the same key that unlocks the car... My problem is that I paid for a device (the starter device already installed on my car) that I can't use without a membership. People have had remote start on cars for decades without needing a bloatware subscription to XM radio.... sigh
  - Phenomenit 5y ago
    Ok so your device is not supplied by volvo?
    - winternett 5y ago
      No, not the issue at all. The problem is that I refuse to pay a fee and use a tracking app just so I can use remote start features already installed on my car that don't need to be part of any paid monthly service. My car should not require a cell phone with the maker's app installed on it, or even an Internet connection to fully operate... It's insane to think it should from a reliability standpoint.
      - cmurf 5y ago
        If only it were insanity. It might be curible.
- mcguire 5y ago
  According to the article, the remote start feature from the remote does not use the cell connection.
- 5y ago
alistairSH 5y ago
Toyota is being lambasted for forcing a subscription on a function between the key fob and the car (RF signal). There is no app to port to various device OSes. There is no server infrastructure to maintain. Subaru's subscription is for remote start via app. Which is Volvo's service?
- gambiting 5y ago
  Volvo has a subscription called Volvo On Call, and it's app based. You can't remotely start the car from just the fob. So yes, you are paying basically for the server upkeep + the sim card installed in your car that enables all those services.

Loughla 5y ago

Yeah - not sure why Toyota is getting hammered for this. Subaru does this as well. You can get app enabled remote start from your phone, if you buy their subscription service. I love Subaru, but that is a trash system.

lastofthemojito 5y ago
That feels like apples-and-oranges to me if you're talking about a smartphone app feature. A smartphone app has to be regularly upgraded to pay nice with new OS versions, has to have back-end servers, etc. Toyota is disabling remote start functionality between the key fob and the vehicle if the vehicle doesn't have a subscription. I'm not surprised a smartphone app requires a subscription but I am surprised and disappointed that a feature on a car's key fob does.
- 14 5y ago
  I too am highly disappointed in Toyota here. A remote start is something you can buy at any auto store and have installed by a mechanic for a couple hundred bucks. Will they block people from going that route now? They charge such a premium for their cars and this just seems petty.
  - michaelmrose 5y ago
    The logical next step would be to ensure that you can't do that in the name of security or if you CAN do it then the "partner" that sells that service has to pay more than you would for the privilege of being allowed on the "platform".
criddell 5y ago
I have remote start on my Subaru and I think it's essentially this: https://www.subarupartspros.com/sku/h001sfl300.html https://www.subarupartspros.com/sku/h001sfl300.html On that page it says: > This Genuine Subaru Accessory is an alternative for customers who do not enroll in STARLINK Safety and Security Plus.
acomjean 5y ago
Subaru at this point is a sub brand of Toyota. (they're part of the "Toyota Group" as of last year)
- ejj28 5y ago
  Toyota owns 20% of Subaru, and Subaru is also invested in Toyota. From what I understand being an affiliate in the Toyota Group is not remotely the same as them being a sub brand of Toyota.

bserge 5y ago

> I could have just bought the device with a remote at Auto Zone for 1/4 of the price But you didn't? I hope your realize at least half of the responsibility is on you as a consumer. You pay for and enable these idiotic ideas.

winternett 5y ago
Incorrect, all of their cars come without the option. Buying an alternate car just because of one corrupt feature is not reasonable nor effective as a protest, many new cars now leverage this tactic and there is no real choice because they get away with it based on leverage. The responsibility is on regulators, not me as a consumer.
- brokenmachine 5y ago
  When the regulators have failed, the only option is to vote with your wallet. I'm sticking to older cars without this nonsense.

Fezzik 5y ago

Subaru has the same thing on their new cars - subscribe annually to Starlink or no remote start for you! I live in a winter wonderland where remote start would be a dream but no way I am paying a cent for this feature. I’ll have to look in to the after market options.

nuccy 5y ago
VW diesel cars can be equipped with Webasto (auxiliary heater which burns diesel). One gets a remote (in my experience reaching up to 500 meters) which can be used to start this heater along with car's climate control. The advantage is that it consumes 1/3-1/5 of what an idling engine does, while heating interior and engine coolant much faster. The disadvantage is that it consumes battery charge, but to counteract that the car is equiped with 30-50% bigger battery. Though this was never a problem for me, from my experience on 94Ah battery it can run for hours without any effect on engine starting, while heating the car in some 10-15 minutes when it is below freezing outside.
- baq 5y ago
  and, in the models that use the engine coolant as a working fluid, your engine is heated up to a cozy operating temperature right from the start, so you end up about even on fuel.
- gambiting 5y ago
  So in my Volvo XC60 T8, the car just came with a Webasto preinstalled from factory, it was standard fit on all models(in 2020 in UK anyway). But you can only start it from the app, they don't give you a separate fob like the one you can buy from Webasto, so you have to pay Volvo's subscription to use it.
edmundsauto 5y ago
You’re not interested in paying for something that provides you with very clear value? So instead you wil go pay money for a different system to bolt on? I don’t mean to criticize, but I have to admit that I cannot empathize.

Phenomenit 5y ago

I think some of the reasoning behind the fee is that there's a simcard in the car that needs to be payed for and if you opt out then they don't have to pay for it. I have the same service and I can't live without the remotly started heating so for me it's worth every krona.

winternett 5y ago
A remote RF device could do that without the Sim card, the same key that unlocks the car... My problem is that I paid for a device (the starter device already installed on my car) that I can't use without a membership. People have had remote start on cars for decades without needing a bloatware subscription to XM radio.... sigh
- Phenomenit 5y ago
  Ok so your device is not supplied by volvo?
  - winternett 5y ago
    No, not the issue at all. The problem is that I refuse to pay a fee and use a tracking app just so I can use remote start features already installed on my car that don't need to be part of any paid monthly service. My car should not require a cell phone with the maker's app installed on it, or even an Internet connection to fully operate... It's insane to think it should from a reliability standpoint.
    - cmurf 5y ago
      If only it were insanity. It might be curible.
mcguire 5y ago
According to the article, the remote start feature from the remote does not use the cell connection.
5y ago

alistairSH 5y ago

Toyota is being lambasted for forcing a subscription on a function between the key fob and the car (RF signal). There is no app to port to various device OSes. There is no server infrastructure to maintain. Subaru's subscription is for remote start via app. Which is Volvo's service?

gambiting 5y ago
Volvo has a subscription called Volvo On Call, and it's app based. You can't remotely start the car from just the fob. So yes, you are paying basically for the server upkeep + the sim card installed in your car that enables all those services.