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I agree with 1 below, but 2 seems strange -- a man who is generally feeling OK is not going to spend a lot of time and money on therapy. '1. Turn yourself into

I agree with 1 below, but 2 seems strange -- a man who is generally feeling OK is not going to spend a lot of time and money on therapy. '1. Turn yourself into a project that you can work on and get better at, in ways that are going to help you date better but are good even if you don’t. 2. Go to therapy. It’s much better than you’ve been told and it will probably help. This isn’t because you’re crazy or weak (no more than the rest of us) it’s because talking about your feelings with a professional who is there to help you out is really good and useful and almost everyone would benefit from it.'

weekendvampire 5y ago
Agreed. Therapy is not a practical option for everyone, though it now makes me curious enough as to why the author insists upon it so much.
- jfengel 5y ago
  At its best, therapy helps you with the problems that you don't realize that you have. Or problems that you misunderstand, and keep wrapping yourself around the axle trying to solve the same way, but harder. A bit like rubber-ducking, in programming. It's not that therapists have the solutions to your problems. What they have is a set of tools for helping you look at your problems in different ways, and experience in applying those tools. It's really easy to be skeptical of that. You have, after all, been working on your own problems for a long time, and you know the domain better (yourself) than they possibly could. What can they contribute? And the answer is that they're not you, and can therefore often see what's obvious to everybody except you. You know those friends of yours who can't figure out what's wrong even though everybody else already knows, but can't figure out how to convince them? Well, it's like that? That happens to everybody, including you. And unlike your friends circle, they're paid to be objective about it, to solve the problems rather than remain your friend. This isn't a panacea. Finding a therapist is like dating -- you need somebody who clicks with you. It can take several tries to find one who works. It's not cheap -- it's covered under many insurance plans, but sadly conventional wisdom is that the best ones are those who can avoid working under insurance. And that makes it kind of a catch-22: you have to trust the process for it to work, but it's not trustworthy. You have to be willing to step outside your preconceptions, which sounds noble in the abstract but is really aggravating in practice, since it feels wrong and feels like it's getting worse instead of better. Which it could be -- all of those various defaults and defensive mechanisms you've got, they came about for reasons. Still, I'd say not to dimiss the notion. If you've dismissed it as clearly unable to help, I'd say you're wrong. Which isn't the same as saying that it can help. The best I can say, as it relates to the article, is that if you're willing to go to therapy and take on the trust involved, that alone does make you more likely to succeed at dating, because you're at least trying to think about it. Or at least, you're demonstrating that you always were that person all along. I hope that answers your curiosity, or at least helps point it in the direction of an answer.
  - weekendvampire 5y ago
    You've contextualized therapy very well. This'll be useful reading for anyone (including myself) who has no inherent idea about it.
  - aahortwwy 5y ago
    Sad that we've commercialized external perspective and wisdom.
    - jfengel 5y ago
      I'd say "professionalized", but that's really just another way of saying the same thing. I see it as a positive thing that there are those who have specialized in it, and that it's a resource you can get. It should be part of your mental health care, and it sucks that we've commercialized that along with the rest of our health care. That costs a fortune in the US, and mental health care is often limited. It would be great if we had a more rational way of paying for it, freeing up our professionals to put their help where it's best used rather than for those who can best afford it.
      - aahortwwy 5y ago
        Professionalized is a good term. > I see it as a positive thing that there are those who have specialized in it, and that it's a resource you can get. That is a positive thing but historically we haven't needed to turn to professionals for that resource. It's been provided, gratis, by community leaders and elders for most of human history. I see reliance on professionals for this sort of thing as a major negative. I'd argue that it reduces a community's ability to produce that resource for itself. Like this: > And unlike your friends circle, they're paid to be objective about it, to solve the problems rather than remain your friend. If you rely on a therapist to be objective with you, you don't need your friends to be, and you don't need to be that friend to other people. You can just tell them, "go to therapy, it's really helped me!" and be done with it... Maybe I'm taking something different away from your post above than what you actually meant. I see people talking about therapy as a way of maintaining mental fitness, rather than treating mental illness, and that bothers me. A bit of a rambling post, but I hope you catch my drift.
- g8oz 5y ago
  Therapy has become some sort of secular sacrament.
scyzoryk_xyz 5y ago
This is a misconception. Even 6 months of cognitive behavioral therapy spent working on fairly ordinary issues uncovered quite a few distortions and blind spots for me. My fresh outlook and newly found confidence made me noticeably more attractive. I found the love of my life without even really expecting to very shortly afterwards. People want to start relationships with people exhibiting signs of personal growth and change. CBT is great - it doesn’t require an experienced therapist and the time commitment is scalable.
- peanut_worm 5y ago
  Where do you find a good therapist? I have gone through 3 and they all forgot my name on a weekly basis
  - scyzoryk_xyz 5y ago
    I really don’t know - I just happened across one that worked. Maybe I just got lucky. That being said, I really don’t think she remembered me or developed a unique emotional connection with me or anything like that. Which is fine, because that is not the point. The CBT methodology only guides the patient, and the patient must do all the work. The therapist takes notes, implements a methodology, and assigns specific work. This isn’t really all that different from a tutor or coach the way I see it. Now, this is just my personal POV. My cognitive/emotional distortions weren’t that severe to begin with. And this was CBT which I’m pretty sure is like the vanilla HTML/JS of therapy or something along those lines. People with severe psychological issues and problems are a totally different story.

weekendvampire 5y ago

Agreed. Therapy is not a practical option for everyone, though it now makes me curious enough as to why the author insists upon it so much.

jfengel 5y ago
At its best, therapy helps you with the problems that you don't realize that you have. Or problems that you misunderstand, and keep wrapping yourself around the axle trying to solve the same way, but harder. A bit like rubber-ducking, in programming. It's not that therapists have the solutions to your problems. What they have is a set of tools for helping you look at your problems in different ways, and experience in applying those tools. It's really easy to be skeptical of that. You have, after all, been working on your own problems for a long time, and you know the domain better (yourself) than they possibly could. What can they contribute? And the answer is that they're not you, and can therefore often see what's obvious to everybody except you. You know those friends of yours who can't figure out what's wrong even though everybody else already knows, but can't figure out how to convince them? Well, it's like that? That happens to everybody, including you. And unlike your friends circle, they're paid to be objective about it, to solve the problems rather than remain your friend. This isn't a panacea. Finding a therapist is like dating -- you need somebody who clicks with you. It can take several tries to find one who works. It's not cheap -- it's covered under many insurance plans, but sadly conventional wisdom is that the best ones are those who can avoid working under insurance. And that makes it kind of a catch-22: you have to trust the process for it to work, but it's not trustworthy. You have to be willing to step outside your preconceptions, which sounds noble in the abstract but is really aggravating in practice, since it feels wrong and feels like it's getting worse instead of better. Which it could be -- all of those various defaults and defensive mechanisms you've got, they came about for reasons. Still, I'd say not to dimiss the notion. If you've dismissed it as clearly unable to help, I'd say you're wrong. Which isn't the same as saying that it can help. The best I can say, as it relates to the article, is that if you're willing to go to therapy and take on the trust involved, that alone does make you more likely to succeed at dating, because you're at least trying to think about it. Or at least, you're demonstrating that you always were that person all along. I hope that answers your curiosity, or at least helps point it in the direction of an answer.
- weekendvampire 5y ago
  You've contextualized therapy very well. This'll be useful reading for anyone (including myself) who has no inherent idea about it.
- aahortwwy 5y ago
  Sad that we've commercialized external perspective and wisdom.
  - jfengel 5y ago
    I'd say "professionalized", but that's really just another way of saying the same thing. I see it as a positive thing that there are those who have specialized in it, and that it's a resource you can get. It should be part of your mental health care, and it sucks that we've commercialized that along with the rest of our health care. That costs a fortune in the US, and mental health care is often limited. It would be great if we had a more rational way of paying for it, freeing up our professionals to put their help where it's best used rather than for those who can best afford it.
    - aahortwwy 5y ago
      Professionalized is a good term. > I see it as a positive thing that there are those who have specialized in it, and that it's a resource you can get. That is a positive thing but historically we haven't needed to turn to professionals for that resource. It's been provided, gratis, by community leaders and elders for most of human history. I see reliance on professionals for this sort of thing as a major negative. I'd argue that it reduces a community's ability to produce that resource for itself. Like this: > And unlike your friends circle, they're paid to be objective about it, to solve the problems rather than remain your friend. If you rely on a therapist to be objective with you, you don't need your friends to be, and you don't need to be that friend to other people. You can just tell them, "go to therapy, it's really helped me!" and be done with it... Maybe I'm taking something different away from your post above than what you actually meant. I see people talking about therapy as a way of maintaining mental fitness, rather than treating mental illness, and that bothers me. A bit of a rambling post, but I hope you catch my drift.
g8oz 5y ago
Therapy has become some sort of secular sacrament.

scyzoryk_xyz 5y ago

This is a misconception. Even 6 months of cognitive behavioral therapy spent working on fairly ordinary issues uncovered quite a few distortions and blind spots for me. My fresh outlook and newly found confidence made me noticeably more attractive. I found the love of my life without even really expecting to very shortly afterwards. People want to start relationships with people exhibiting signs of personal growth and change. CBT is great - it doesn’t require an experienced therapist and the time commitment is scalable.

peanut_worm 5y ago
Where do you find a good therapist? I have gone through 3 and they all forgot my name on a weekly basis
- scyzoryk_xyz 5y ago
  I really don’t know - I just happened across one that worked. Maybe I just got lucky. That being said, I really don’t think she remembered me or developed a unique emotional connection with me or anything like that. Which is fine, because that is not the point. The CBT methodology only guides the patient, and the patient must do all the work. The therapist takes notes, implements a methodology, and assigns specific work. This isn’t really all that different from a tutor or coach the way I see it. Now, this is just my personal POV. My cognitive/emotional distortions weren’t that severe to begin with. And this was CBT which I’m pretty sure is like the vanilla HTML/JS of therapy or something along those lines. People with severe psychological issues and problems are a totally different story.