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Dating Advice for Guys

lolc 5y ago
I like how the article focuses on the change part. And the importance to include friends in the process. When I finally started dating, it came with the acceptance that it was myself who needed to change. Addressing my insecurities was the hardest part of it. Having friends to talk about my experiences was very helpful.
Bostonian 5y ago
I agree with 1 below, but 2 seems strange -- a man who is generally feeling OK is not going to spend a lot of time and money on therapy. '1. Turn yourself into a project that you can work on and get better at, in ways that are going to help you date better but are good even if you don’t. 2. Go to therapy. It’s much better than you’ve been told and it will probably help. This isn’t because you’re crazy or weak (no more than the rest of us) it’s because talking about your feelings with a professional who is there to help you out is really good and useful and almost everyone would benefit from it.'
- weekendvampire 5y ago
  Agreed. Therapy is not a practical option for everyone, though it now makes me curious enough as to why the author insists upon it so much.
  - jfengel 5y ago
    At its best, therapy helps you with the problems that you don't realize that you have. Or problems that you misunderstand, and keep wrapping yourself around the axle trying to solve the same way, but harder. A bit like rubber-ducking, in programming. It's not that therapists have the solutions to your problems. What they have is a set of tools for helping you look at your problems in different ways, and experience in applying those tools. It's really easy to be skeptical of that. You have, after all, been working on your own problems for a long time, and you know the domain better (yourself) than they possibly could. What can they contribute? And the answer is that they're not you, and can therefore often see what's obvious to everybody except you. You know those friends of yours who can't figure out what's wrong even though everybody else already knows, but can't figure out how to convince them? Well, it's like that? That happens to everybody, including you. And unlike your friends circle, they're paid to be objective about it, to solve the problems rather than remain your friend. This isn't a panacea. Finding a therapist is like dating -- you need somebody who clicks with you. It can take several tries to find one who works. It's not cheap -- it's covered under many insurance plans, but sadly conventional wisdom is that the best ones are those who can avoid working under insurance. And that makes it kind of a catch-22: you have to trust the process for it to work, but it's not trustworthy. You have to be willing to step outside your preconceptions, which sounds noble in the abstract but is really aggravating in practice, since it feels wrong and feels like it's getting worse instead of better. Which it could be -- all of those various defaults and defensive mechanisms you've got, they came about for reasons. Still, I'd say not to dimiss the notion. If you've dismissed it as clearly unable to help, I'd say you're wrong. Which isn't the same as saying that it can help. The best I can say, as it relates to the article, is that if you're willing to go to therapy and take on the trust involved, that alone does make you more likely to succeed at dating, because you're at least trying to think about it. Or at least, you're demonstrating that you always were that person all along. I hope that answers your curiosity, or at least helps point it in the direction of an answer.
    - weekendvampire 5y ago
      You've contextualized therapy very well. This'll be useful reading for anyone (including myself) who has no inherent idea about it.
    - aahortwwy 5y ago
      Sad that we've commercialized external perspective and wisdom.
      - jfengel 5y ago
        I'd say "professionalized", but that's really just another way of saying the same thing. I see it as a positive thing that there are those who have specialized in it, and that it's a resource you can get. It should be part of your mental health care, and it sucks that we've commercialized that along with the rest of our health care. That costs a fortune in the US, and mental health care is often limited. It would be great if we had a more rational way of paying for it, freeing up our professionals to put their help where it's best used rather than for those who can best afford it.
        aahortwwy 5y ago
        Professionalized is a good term. > I see it as a positive thing that there are those who have specialized in it, and that it's a resource you can get. That is a positive thing but historically we haven't needed to turn to professionals for that resource. It's been provided, gratis, by community leaders and elders for most of human history. I see reliance on professionals for this sort of thing as a major negative. I'd argue that it reduces a community's ability to produce that resource for itself. Like this: > And unlike your friends circle, they're paid to be objective about it, to solve the problems rather than remain your friend. If you rely on a therapist to be objective with you, you don't need your friends to be, and you don't need to be that friend to other people. You can just tell them, "go to therapy, it's really helped me!" and be done with it... Maybe I'm taking something different away from your post above than what you actually meant. I see people talking about therapy as a way of maintaining mental fitness, rather than treating mental illness, and that bothers me. A bit of a rambling post, but I hope you catch my drift.
  - g8oz 5y ago
    Therapy has become some sort of secular sacrament.
- scyzoryk_xyz 5y ago
  This is a misconception. Even 6 months of cognitive behavioral therapy spent working on fairly ordinary issues uncovered quite a few distortions and blind spots for me. My fresh outlook and newly found confidence made me noticeably more attractive. I found the love of my life without even really expecting to very shortly afterwards. People want to start relationships with people exhibiting signs of personal growth and change. CBT is great - it doesn’t require an experienced therapist and the time commitment is scalable.
  - peanut_worm 5y ago
    Where do you find a good therapist? I have gone through 3 and they all forgot my name on a weekly basis
    - scyzoryk_xyz 5y ago
      I really don’t know - I just happened across one that worked. Maybe I just got lucky. That being said, I really don’t think she remembered me or developed a unique emotional connection with me or anything like that. Which is fine, because that is not the point. The CBT methodology only guides the patient, and the patient must do all the work. The therapist takes notes, implements a methodology, and assigns specific work. This isn’t really all that different from a tutor or coach the way I see it. Now, this is just my personal POV. My cognitive/emotional distortions weren’t that severe to begin with. And this was CBT which I’m pretty sure is like the vanilla HTML/JS of therapy or something along those lines. People with severe psychological issues and problems are a totally different story.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
naveen99 5y ago
TLDR: settle for a hug and a massage.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
GDC7 5y ago
> You’re struggling to date because you’re a horrible toxic man who doesn’t view women as people I know this will be downvoted to hell, but guys who are very successful with the opposite sex are those who objectify women the most. Leaving aside the Dan Bilzerian types and those who see sex as transactional , some degree of objectification might be needed in order for regular guys to go for it. When men compete for say a darts trophy they are unapologetic in declaring to themselves and to others that they are going for it....when a woman is involved on the other hand it's almost like male pride and ego takes the wheel and we don't want to look thirsty or desperate or even subordinates who don't have any other option than making the first move. In short it's really tough to go there and admit to ourselves and to her that we need her more than they need us, that she has plenty of options , while we only have the option of going out there and expose ourselves to a potential rejection/humiliation . Ego is not having it, because we don't want to look inferior and most importantly feel inferior compared to another human being. Objectification solves this problem, in a sense, it brings us back to the darts trophy analogy and liberates the male psyche. I'd say transient objectification is the regime which has been in place ever since the beginning of the specie till the early 00s. Transient objectification gave men enough peace of mind to approach women without much worry about ego consequences, and if the approach was successful it would disappear rather quickly and boom! In 3 months time you are a couple. Matter of fact the most successful videos on youtube aren't about picking up, they are about helping guys become beautiful/successful/famous/wealthy enough in order to reverse the above dynamic and have women approach them instead, so women would have to swallow their pride, at that point both ego and the relationship centers in our brain can be happy with the outcome, otherwise one would have to suck it up. It's almost like the transient objectification route has been closed off somewhere in the 90s/00s and now those who are successful are guys who either have an ego small enough to chase or with enough resources to reverse the typical dynamic and have women chase them instead.
- johnny22 5y ago
  Eh, never was a problem for me. I don't have to "objectify" women. I just have to be secure in myself. Confidence that you're just fine on your own is waaay more important. Worst thing in my life was when i came off as desperate.
Havoc 5y ago
Curious what others think about “go to therapy” being a tldr of dating? Can’t decide whether that is ridiculous or insightful
- snowwrestler 5y ago
  It read to me as an article written specifically for guys who are finding it very challenging to date women. Therapy may help those guys explore why it seems so challenging. Or help them blow off some steam and process feelings a bit so they are calmer (and therefore more confident) in potential dating situations. You don’t need therapy to do that, but you do need a certain type of personal relationship available to you, one in which you can openly and honestly discuss feelings. That might not be available to some guys, so therapy could maybe fill the need. (The article basically says this.)
- penjelly 5y ago
  well its not insightful. May have worked for OP but some guys juzt struggle with how they should behave in "normal" social settings so they need more exposure to that. Therapy IS a social setting but if its being used as an exposure technique... then there are far better alternatives. Try recreational sports/activities you enjoy and want to improve at. Youll get a lot more confidence from those then you would therapy.
Zababa 5y ago
Since everyone is sharing their advice: A few years of weekly therapy session did mostly nothing for me, while a few evening with close friends and MDMA made me able to talk about myself and my feelings. All of my close friends have noticed the changed. I'm now able to reach out for help. The part about hugs might be a great idea too, at least that's the first time I've heard it. About the article itself, it was nice. It's rare to see an article like that, read it and not feel like shit at the end. This one was hopeful and seems to give good advice.
eyelidlessness 5y ago
If I might condense the tl;dr a bit more: 1. Be willing to be emotionally present, vulnerable and sincere 2. And keep doing that I don’t currently have a thriving dating life, nor do I want to now. But when I have, that’s what worked. And observing adjacent comments: You don’t have to objectify anyone to be emotionally available. You don’t have to go to therapy either, but if you’re hesitant you probably would benefit from it more than you think. People who aren’t your prospective dating partners will also appreciate your growth.
rkk3 5y ago
A better title would be "Dating advice for 4Chan NEET's" > here’s some dating advice. It’s mostly meant for guys who want to date girls, and it’s kinda pitched assuming that you spend a lot of time on 4chan This is an odd piece... Good for the author for blogging, but not sure why this ended up here.
- Zababa 5y ago
  No, this wouldn't be a better title. First you removed the "reddit" part, second the author never talked about NEETs. I know lots of people that are studying or working and that struggle with dating.
  - rkk3 5y ago
    > I know lots of people that are studying or working and that struggle with dating. Cool? And I wouldn't recommend them this article that suggests they seek therapy & deal with their latent toxic masculinity.
    - Zababa 5y ago
      That sounds like a very reductive view of the article. What would you suggest instead?
      - rkk3 5y ago
        Well I would start by differentiating between "dating" and "maintaining" a relationship because I think they are very different problems. The author specifies "Guys who want to date girls", that makes me think we are dealing with a sales & marketing problem. So I would probably emphasize Diet, Hygiene, Exercise, Fashion and how they pitch/introduce themselves etc.
        Zababa 5y ago
        Most of the article seems to assume that people are looking for long terms relationships, so while sales & marketing is a part of that, the article seems more focused on customer success & support (to reuse your metaphor). Which is why there is a heavy focus on therapy, and finding ways to get some physical contact in the meantime.
yosito 5y ago
> Most dating advice is shit and so is this These are just random, mildly misandrist opinions. They're not all wrong, but not a magic bullet or fool-proof. Personally, the best dating advice I ever got was "Ask for what you want", as the cliche goes "if you don't ask, the answer's no". And another important bit of advice that goes with it is when you ask for something, and someone says no, accept it gracefully and move on.
- newsbinator 5y ago
  Works as career advice too, especially for freelancers.
JoeyBananas 5y ago
Not every bird is an ornithologist
sydthrowaway 5y ago
Step 0. Get out of SF
thunkshift1 5y ago
Instead of quibbling in the comments, lets hear it from the expert who dedicated his entire life (literally) to SCIENTIFICALLY studying the problem - https://youtu.be/HXzTbCEqCJc https://youtu.be/HXzTbCEqCJc

lolc 5y ago

I like how the article focuses on the change part. And the importance to include friends in the process. When I finally started dating, it came with the acceptance that it was myself who needed to change. Addressing my insecurities was the hardest part of it. Having friends to talk about my experiences was very helpful.

Bostonian 5y ago

I agree with 1 below, but 2 seems strange -- a man who is generally feeling OK is not going to spend a lot of time and money on therapy. '1. Turn yourself into a project that you can work on and get better at, in ways that are going to help you date better but are good even if you don’t. 2. Go to therapy. It’s much better than you’ve been told and it will probably help. This isn’t because you’re crazy or weak (no more than the rest of us) it’s because talking about your feelings with a professional who is there to help you out is really good and useful and almost everyone would benefit from it.'

weekendvampire 5y ago
Agreed. Therapy is not a practical option for everyone, though it now makes me curious enough as to why the author insists upon it so much.
- jfengel 5y ago
  At its best, therapy helps you with the problems that you don't realize that you have. Or problems that you misunderstand, and keep wrapping yourself around the axle trying to solve the same way, but harder. A bit like rubber-ducking, in programming. It's not that therapists have the solutions to your problems. What they have is a set of tools for helping you look at your problems in different ways, and experience in applying those tools. It's really easy to be skeptical of that. You have, after all, been working on your own problems for a long time, and you know the domain better (yourself) than they possibly could. What can they contribute? And the answer is that they're not you, and can therefore often see what's obvious to everybody except you. You know those friends of yours who can't figure out what's wrong even though everybody else already knows, but can't figure out how to convince them? Well, it's like that? That happens to everybody, including you. And unlike your friends circle, they're paid to be objective about it, to solve the problems rather than remain your friend. This isn't a panacea. Finding a therapist is like dating -- you need somebody who clicks with you. It can take several tries to find one who works. It's not cheap -- it's covered under many insurance plans, but sadly conventional wisdom is that the best ones are those who can avoid working under insurance. And that makes it kind of a catch-22: you have to trust the process for it to work, but it's not trustworthy. You have to be willing to step outside your preconceptions, which sounds noble in the abstract but is really aggravating in practice, since it feels wrong and feels like it's getting worse instead of better. Which it could be -- all of those various defaults and defensive mechanisms you've got, they came about for reasons. Still, I'd say not to dimiss the notion. If you've dismissed it as clearly unable to help, I'd say you're wrong. Which isn't the same as saying that it can help. The best I can say, as it relates to the article, is that if you're willing to go to therapy and take on the trust involved, that alone does make you more likely to succeed at dating, because you're at least trying to think about it. Or at least, you're demonstrating that you always were that person all along. I hope that answers your curiosity, or at least helps point it in the direction of an answer.
  - weekendvampire 5y ago
    You've contextualized therapy very well. This'll be useful reading for anyone (including myself) who has no inherent idea about it.
  - aahortwwy 5y ago
    Sad that we've commercialized external perspective and wisdom.
    - jfengel 5y ago
      I'd say "professionalized", but that's really just another way of saying the same thing. I see it as a positive thing that there are those who have specialized in it, and that it's a resource you can get. It should be part of your mental health care, and it sucks that we've commercialized that along with the rest of our health care. That costs a fortune in the US, and mental health care is often limited. It would be great if we had a more rational way of paying for it, freeing up our professionals to put their help where it's best used rather than for those who can best afford it.
      - aahortwwy 5y ago
        Professionalized is a good term. > I see it as a positive thing that there are those who have specialized in it, and that it's a resource you can get. That is a positive thing but historically we haven't needed to turn to professionals for that resource. It's been provided, gratis, by community leaders and elders for most of human history. I see reliance on professionals for this sort of thing as a major negative. I'd argue that it reduces a community's ability to produce that resource for itself. Like this: > And unlike your friends circle, they're paid to be objective about it, to solve the problems rather than remain your friend. If you rely on a therapist to be objective with you, you don't need your friends to be, and you don't need to be that friend to other people. You can just tell them, "go to therapy, it's really helped me!" and be done with it... Maybe I'm taking something different away from your post above than what you actually meant. I see people talking about therapy as a way of maintaining mental fitness, rather than treating mental illness, and that bothers me. A bit of a rambling post, but I hope you catch my drift.
- g8oz 5y ago
  Therapy has become some sort of secular sacrament.
scyzoryk_xyz 5y ago
This is a misconception. Even 6 months of cognitive behavioral therapy spent working on fairly ordinary issues uncovered quite a few distortions and blind spots for me. My fresh outlook and newly found confidence made me noticeably more attractive. I found the love of my life without even really expecting to very shortly afterwards. People want to start relationships with people exhibiting signs of personal growth and change. CBT is great - it doesn’t require an experienced therapist and the time commitment is scalable.
- peanut_worm 5y ago
  Where do you find a good therapist? I have gone through 3 and they all forgot my name on a weekly basis
  - scyzoryk_xyz 5y ago
    I really don’t know - I just happened across one that worked. Maybe I just got lucky. That being said, I really don’t think she remembered me or developed a unique emotional connection with me or anything like that. Which is fine, because that is not the point. The CBT methodology only guides the patient, and the patient must do all the work. The therapist takes notes, implements a methodology, and assigns specific work. This isn’t really all that different from a tutor or coach the way I see it. Now, this is just my personal POV. My cognitive/emotional distortions weren’t that severe to begin with. And this was CBT which I’m pretty sure is like the vanilla HTML/JS of therapy or something along those lines. People with severe psychological issues and problems are a totally different story.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

naveen99 5y ago

TLDR: settle for a hug and a massage.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

GDC7 5y ago

> You’re struggling to date because you’re a horrible toxic man who doesn’t view women as people I know this will be downvoted to hell, but guys who are very successful with the opposite sex are those who objectify women the most. Leaving aside the Dan Bilzerian types and those who see sex as transactional , some degree of objectification might be needed in order for regular guys to go for it. When men compete for say a darts trophy they are unapologetic in declaring to themselves and to others that they are going for it....when a woman is involved on the other hand it's almost like male pride and ego takes the wheel and we don't want to look thirsty or desperate or even subordinates who don't have any other option than making the first move. In short it's really tough to go there and admit to ourselves and to her that we need her more than they need us, that she has plenty of options , while we only have the option of going out there and expose ourselves to a potential rejection/humiliation . Ego is not having it, because we don't want to look inferior and most importantly feel inferior compared to another human being. Objectification solves this problem, in a sense, it brings us back to the darts trophy analogy and liberates the male psyche. I'd say transient objectification is the regime which has been in place ever since the beginning of the specie till the early 00s. Transient objectification gave men enough peace of mind to approach women without much worry about ego consequences, and if the approach was successful it would disappear rather quickly and boom! In 3 months time you are a couple. Matter of fact the most successful videos on youtube aren't about picking up, they are about helping guys become beautiful/successful/famous/wealthy enough in order to reverse the above dynamic and have women approach them instead, so women would have to swallow their pride, at that point both ego and the relationship centers in our brain can be happy with the outcome, otherwise one would have to suck it up. It's almost like the transient objectification route has been closed off somewhere in the 90s/00s and now those who are successful are guys who either have an ego small enough to chase or with enough resources to reverse the typical dynamic and have women chase them instead.

johnny22 5y ago
Eh, never was a problem for me. I don't have to "objectify" women. I just have to be secure in myself. Confidence that you're just fine on your own is waaay more important. Worst thing in my life was when i came off as desperate.

Havoc 5y ago

Curious what others think about “go to therapy” being a tldr of dating? Can’t decide whether that is ridiculous or insightful

snowwrestler 5y ago
It read to me as an article written specifically for guys who are finding it very challenging to date women. Therapy may help those guys explore why it seems so challenging. Or help them blow off some steam and process feelings a bit so they are calmer (and therefore more confident) in potential dating situations. You don’t need therapy to do that, but you do need a certain type of personal relationship available to you, one in which you can openly and honestly discuss feelings. That might not be available to some guys, so therapy could maybe fill the need. (The article basically says this.)
penjelly 5y ago
well its not insightful. May have worked for OP but some guys juzt struggle with how they should behave in "normal" social settings so they need more exposure to that. Therapy IS a social setting but if its being used as an exposure technique... then there are far better alternatives. Try recreational sports/activities you enjoy and want to improve at. Youll get a lot more confidence from those then you would therapy.

Zababa 5y ago

Since everyone is sharing their advice: A few years of weekly therapy session did mostly nothing for me, while a few evening with close friends and MDMA made me able to talk about myself and my feelings. All of my close friends have noticed the changed. I'm now able to reach out for help. The part about hugs might be a great idea too, at least that's the first time I've heard it. About the article itself, it was nice. It's rare to see an article like that, read it and not feel like shit at the end. This one was hopeful and seems to give good advice.

eyelidlessness 5y ago

If I might condense the tl;dr a bit more: 1. Be willing to be emotionally present, vulnerable and sincere 2. And keep doing that I don’t currently have a thriving dating life, nor do I want to now. But when I have, that’s what worked. And observing adjacent comments: You don’t have to objectify anyone to be emotionally available. You don’t have to go to therapy either, but if you’re hesitant you probably would benefit from it more than you think. People who aren’t your prospective dating partners will also appreciate your growth.

rkk3 5y ago

A better title would be "Dating advice for 4Chan NEET's" > here’s some dating advice. It’s mostly meant for guys who want to date girls, and it’s kinda pitched assuming that you spend a lot of time on 4chan This is an odd piece... Good for the author for blogging, but not sure why this ended up here.

Zababa 5y ago
No, this wouldn't be a better title. First you removed the "reddit" part, second the author never talked about NEETs. I know lots of people that are studying or working and that struggle with dating.
- rkk3 5y ago
  > I know lots of people that are studying or working and that struggle with dating. Cool? And I wouldn't recommend them this article that suggests they seek therapy & deal with their latent toxic masculinity.
  - Zababa 5y ago
    That sounds like a very reductive view of the article. What would you suggest instead?
    - rkk3 5y ago
      Well I would start by differentiating between "dating" and "maintaining" a relationship because I think they are very different problems. The author specifies "Guys who want to date girls", that makes me think we are dealing with a sales & marketing problem. So I would probably emphasize Diet, Hygiene, Exercise, Fashion and how they pitch/introduce themselves etc.
      - Zababa 5y ago
        Most of the article seems to assume that people are looking for long terms relationships, so while sales & marketing is a part of that, the article seems more focused on customer success & support (to reuse your metaphor). Which is why there is a heavy focus on therapy, and finding ways to get some physical contact in the meantime.

yosito 5y ago

> Most dating advice is shit and so is this These are just random, mildly misandrist opinions. They're not all wrong, but not a magic bullet or fool-proof. Personally, the best dating advice I ever got was "Ask for what you want", as the cliche goes "if you don't ask, the answer's no". And another important bit of advice that goes with it is when you ask for something, and someone says no, accept it gracefully and move on.

newsbinator 5y ago
Works as career advice too, especially for freelancers.

JoeyBananas 5y ago

Not every bird is an ornithologist

sydthrowaway 5y ago

Step 0. Get out of SF

thunkshift1 5y ago

Instead of quibbling in the comments, lets hear it from the expert who dedicated his entire life (literally) to SCIENTIFICALLY studying the problem - https://youtu.be/HXzTbCEqCJc https://youtu.be/HXzTbCEqCJc