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If this keeps up, some used cars will have a higher value than new ones. People will have to break EULAs to drive cars in mines or buildings with no radio acces

If this keeps up, some used cars will have a higher value than new ones. People will have to break EULAs to drive cars in mines or buildings with no radio access. "Error: please tow your car to an RF access area to enable movement..."

Syonyk 5y ago
> If this keeps up, some used cars will have a higher value than new ones. That's already the case with construction equipment and farm equipment[0]. Right now, used cars often have a higher or near-new value because you can get one today - a new car, at MSRP, may be 6+ months wait, which doesn't help if your car just got totaled. But, yes, everything is doubling down on toxic dystopian surveillance systems, subscription systems, and it's damned near the only option left anymore. I'm not sure what I'm going to do when the current fleet of vehicles needs rotating, because in 10 years when I plan to buy something newer, I'm not sure if anything won't be simply toxic. My car doesn't need a cell connection, sorry... [0]: https://www.thedrive.com/news/31761/enormous-costs-of-new-tractors-drive-demand-of-40-year-old-equipment-to-all-time-highs https://www.thedrive.com/news/31761/enormous-costs-of-new-tr...
- MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
  I had to wait 2 months before my car was available that I just bought. The difference between a 2022 and a 2018, was $3k. So to prove your point, the used market is doing so well, they can sell them for basically MSRP if they aren't too old padded with a warranty you'll likely never use.
- themaninthedark 5y ago
  “The Encyclopedia Galactica defines a robot as a mechanical apparatus designed to do the work of a man. The marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation defines a robot as "Your Plastic Pal Who's Fun to Be With. The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy defines the marketing devision of the Sirius Cybernetic Corporation as "a bunch of mindless jerks who'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes,” Sometimes I wonder if anyone in the meetings that decide these things ever have the moment of realization that "We are the baddies"
ptudan 5y ago
This happened to me with zipcar once. Truly sucked
- npteljes 5y ago
  Would you please share the story?
  - pscoutou 5y ago
    Probably similar to this - https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/zipcar-into-the-wilderness/597217/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/zipcar-int...
  - ptudan 5y ago
    Almost exactly what the parent comment said. I went hiking with some friends in the hills by cupertino, not even far from cell range. But we didn't have service (neither did the car) so we couldn't use the app nor the fob to unlock the car. Ended up having to walk to call an uber and zipcar towed the car. We got refunded but no other compensation
- devoutsalsa 5y ago
  When Maven car share was a thing, I rented a car from them once. It used app with Bluetooth to open/close the doors. The design was horrible. Anytime I’d step away from the car, the phone would become unpaired. Getting it to repair was nontrivial, and the easiest way I found was to reboot my phone. Eventually the car unlocking process became extra ornery & I had to spend something like 10 minutes in the freezing cold weather just trying ti get the car open. I was not pleased & never rented from them again. When I used to be a ZipCar member, they had a keycard I kept in my wallet. That worked well enough.
dont__panic 5y ago
This already happens to some rideshare cars -- I've read a few stories of people who drive their Zipcar out to a hike, but can't get back in the car after their hike because there's no cell signal.
StanislavPetrov 5y ago
I for one will never buy a new car again unless there is a massive move back away from these "features" - even the ones that don't require a monthly charge. I don't want a car that phones home (much less that has components that phone home) to send information that has been harvested from my activities. I don't want a car that beeps or flashes when people pass me or the car thinks I have driven to close to something. I don't need a camera to back up. I don't want headlights that intermittently decide to change to brights. I don't want a car that is a glorified computer that's open to contact by blue-tooth and wifi. Its all just something else that will break and need to be repaired. Looking forward to paying up for a 1975 era 4x4 when my current car gives out.
- betwixthewires 5y ago
  Unfortunately, a lot of these features are being mandated in newer cars. Rear view cameras are the prominent example here. I'm with you. I drive a 20 year old vehicle, and my next vehicle will probably be a 30 year old rebuilt truck. I'm sure I could find someone to do all the work and source all the parts for a rebuild on something for much cheaper than the cost of a new car. This bullshit is getting out of hand.
jsmith45 5y ago
It has already happened. There was a case where somebody's new Ferrari straight from a dealer brought to some store to have a baby seat installed. Some sort of anti-tamper or anti theft system apparently triggered while they were trying to see if any of the baby seats fit (nope!). And this happened down inside a concrete garage, so no signal reception. Ferrari apparently has some means of disabling these interlocks over the air, but well, no reception. A technician gets flown out, but apparently is unable to fix it, so it will need to towed to a dealership to fix. Apparently whatever interlock tripped will try to make the car phone home, and if that fails, it locks down harder than normal such that it can only be fixed with tools found at a dealer. To summarize: Car: I think I'm being stolen. I'll lock down, and call for help. The lines are dead?!?! I really am being stolen. Activate computer self-destruct. Also the technician had to manually release the handbrake to allow it to be moved, since apparently it was locked down enough that doing that the normal way was not possible. I'm as skeptical as you are about the details of the story, but it was posted second hand, and I'm not sure the poster even understood all the details. The most details exist in the comments of the third reddit post. The linked Hacker news discussion was based only on the first, and some of the discussion there occurred before OP had clarified some things. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24754662 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24754662 https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/comments/j914fh/dude_comes_straight_from_the_dealership_for_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/comments/j914... https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/comments/j9jim1/update_theyve_flown_a_very_italian_sounding/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/comments/j9ji... https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/comments/j9qnh3/final_update_and_there_it_goes_boys_a_true_marvel/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/comments/j9qn...
yosito 5y ago
Imagine when no one can drive their car because AWS is down.

Syonyk 5y ago

> If this keeps up, some used cars will have a higher value than new ones. That's already the case with construction equipment and farm equipment[0]. Right now, used cars often have a higher or near-new value because you can get one today - a new car, at MSRP, may be 6+ months wait, which doesn't help if your car just got totaled. But, yes, everything is doubling down on toxic dystopian surveillance systems, subscription systems, and it's damned near the only option left anymore. I'm not sure what I'm going to do when the current fleet of vehicles needs rotating, because in 10 years when I plan to buy something newer, I'm not sure if anything won't be simply toxic. My car doesn't need a cell connection, sorry... [0]: https://www.thedrive.com/news/31761/enormous-costs-of-new-tractors-drive-demand-of-40-year-old-equipment-to-all-time-highs https://www.thedrive.com/news/31761/enormous-costs-of-new-tr...

MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
I had to wait 2 months before my car was available that I just bought. The difference between a 2022 and a 2018, was $3k. So to prove your point, the used market is doing so well, they can sell them for basically MSRP if they aren't too old padded with a warranty you'll likely never use.
themaninthedark 5y ago
“The Encyclopedia Galactica defines a robot as a mechanical apparatus designed to do the work of a man. The marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation defines a robot as "Your Plastic Pal Who's Fun to Be With. The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy defines the marketing devision of the Sirius Cybernetic Corporation as "a bunch of mindless jerks who'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes,” Sometimes I wonder if anyone in the meetings that decide these things ever have the moment of realization that "We are the baddies"

ptudan 5y ago

This happened to me with zipcar once. Truly sucked

npteljes 5y ago
Would you please share the story?
- pscoutou 5y ago
  Probably similar to this - https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/zipcar-into-the-wilderness/597217/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/zipcar-int...
- ptudan 5y ago
  Almost exactly what the parent comment said. I went hiking with some friends in the hills by cupertino, not even far from cell range. But we didn't have service (neither did the car) so we couldn't use the app nor the fob to unlock the car. Ended up having to walk to call an uber and zipcar towed the car. We got refunded but no other compensation
devoutsalsa 5y ago
When Maven car share was a thing, I rented a car from them once. It used app with Bluetooth to open/close the doors. The design was horrible. Anytime I’d step away from the car, the phone would become unpaired. Getting it to repair was nontrivial, and the easiest way I found was to reboot my phone. Eventually the car unlocking process became extra ornery & I had to spend something like 10 minutes in the freezing cold weather just trying ti get the car open. I was not pleased & never rented from them again. When I used to be a ZipCar member, they had a keycard I kept in my wallet. That worked well enough.

dont__panic 5y ago

This already happens to some rideshare cars -- I've read a few stories of people who drive their Zipcar out to a hike, but can't get back in the car after their hike because there's no cell signal.

StanislavPetrov 5y ago

I for one will never buy a new car again unless there is a massive move back away from these "features" - even the ones that don't require a monthly charge. I don't want a car that phones home (much less that has components that phone home) to send information that has been harvested from my activities. I don't want a car that beeps or flashes when people pass me or the car thinks I have driven to close to something. I don't need a camera to back up. I don't want headlights that intermittently decide to change to brights. I don't want a car that is a glorified computer that's open to contact by blue-tooth and wifi. Its all just something else that will break and need to be repaired. Looking forward to paying up for a 1975 era 4x4 when my current car gives out.

betwixthewires 5y ago
Unfortunately, a lot of these features are being mandated in newer cars. Rear view cameras are the prominent example here. I'm with you. I drive a 20 year old vehicle, and my next vehicle will probably be a 30 year old rebuilt truck. I'm sure I could find someone to do all the work and source all the parts for a rebuild on something for much cheaper than the cost of a new car. This bullshit is getting out of hand.

jsmith45 5y ago

It has already happened. There was a case where somebody's new Ferrari straight from a dealer brought to some store to have a baby seat installed. Some sort of anti-tamper or anti theft system apparently triggered while they were trying to see if any of the baby seats fit (nope!). And this happened down inside a concrete garage, so no signal reception. Ferrari apparently has some means of disabling these interlocks over the air, but well, no reception. A technician gets flown out, but apparently is unable to fix it, so it will need to towed to a dealership to fix. Apparently whatever interlock tripped will try to make the car phone home, and if that fails, it locks down harder than normal such that it can only be fixed with tools found at a dealer. To summarize: Car: I think I'm being stolen. I'll lock down, and call for help. The lines are dead?!?! I really am being stolen. Activate computer self-destruct. Also the technician had to manually release the handbrake to allow it to be moved, since apparently it was locked down enough that doing that the normal way was not possible. I'm as skeptical as you are about the details of the story, but it was posted second hand, and I'm not sure the poster even understood all the details. The most details exist in the comments of the third reddit post. The linked Hacker news discussion was based only on the first, and some of the discussion there occurred before OP had clarified some things. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24754662 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24754662 https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/comments/j914fh/dude_comes_straight_from_the_dealership_for_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/comments/j914... https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/comments/j9jim1/update_theyve_flown_a_very_italian_sounding/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/comments/j9ji... https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/comments/j9qnh3/final_update_and_there_it_goes_boys_a_true_marvel/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/comments/j9qn...

yosito 5y ago

Imagine when no one can drive their car because AWS is down.