4 ms·

> Stopping the line : 5~10 minutes 0 minutes - No one should even think about shutting down gracefully in an emergency. GO. NOW. Your facility should have an e

> Stopping the line : 5~10 minutes 0 minutes - No one should even think about shutting down gracefully in an emergency. GO. NOW. Your facility should have an emergency shutdown procedure. We do and it's called hit the emergency stop buttons and GTFO. > Collect stuff : 5 minutes 0 minutes. Leave it. EMERGENCY. > Get to cars: 5 minutes How far is your car and how big is this building? Granted my shop is small but I can get to my car in 30 seconds from my office at top speed. Your shop should have implemented and tested an evacuation procedure and designated safe meeting spot (If you can safely stand outside). We did, and actually simulated an emergency, found issues with the routes, iterated and retested. We are in fact prepared. Are you? > Get out of gate: 5~10 minutes This is the hard part. Not only do you have to fight your fellow employees but also hoards of other cars especially if you work in an industrial park. If you have a 4x4 use it and let the landscapers worry about the shrubbery and grass you tore up getting the fuck outta dodge. Drive through chain link fences if you have to. Just GO. NOW!

mindslight 5y ago
IMO your comment seems to be imagining some a individualist hero do-anything-at-all-costs scenario ("top speed"), rather than the sluggish herd behavior that engineers design for. For example people are going to take some time to realize they need to take an alarm seriously, take a few minutes to collect their effects, shuffle to their cars, say goodbye to their coworkers, they will wait in traffic lines, etc. I strongly agree there needs to be institutional concern paid to tornadoes, but I don't think planning for workers to bug out in their cars is the right approach.
- MisterTea 5y ago
  > IMO your comment seems to be imagining some a individualist hero do-anything-at-all-costs scenario ("top speed"), rather than the sluggish herd behavior that engineers design for. Indeed this is just your opinion. And the whole individualist hero do anything quip is unnecessary reactionary nonsense. This is about being prepared for an emergency in your facility which entails quickly and safely getting to an exit. > For example people are going to take some time to realize they need to take an alarm seriously, take a few minutes to collect their effects, shuffle to their cars, say goodbye to their coworkers, they will wait in traffic lines, etc. Are they doing this during a fire? They most certainly should not be. > ... but I don't think planning for workers to bug out in their cars is the right approach. This isn't about going George Castanza and pushing old ladies to the floor to get to a fire exit. This is about knowing or having a plan in place and taking it seriously. Maybe your company provides it, maybe you have to figure it out yourself. Point is, always be prepared.
  - mindslight 5y ago
    > Are they doing this during a fire? They most certainly should not be I've been in a few situations where a fire alarm is going off in a large building, and it created no sense of urgency. One was a shopping mall, with people milling about, half-wondering what the noise was, thinking as long as they could see an exit and didn't see a fire it was fine. Even being one who generally doesn't follow herds, I stayed in that state longer than I should have in retrospect. That's human nature, and a major reason of why companies do fire drills. > Maybe your company provides it, maybe you have to figure it out yourself. Point is, always be prepared. Yes, of course. Ultimately you are responsible for your own safety. Always be prepared. The problem arises if you take this philosophy as a given and assert that a large group of people will be individually prepared, as a license to avoid figuring out the institutional-scale problem. That is what I'm taking issue with here. Based on what I've read about the timeframe of tornadoes, I think a corporate policy of having people leave the building and go to their cars is a recipe for a mass casualty event in the parking lot. Given how heavily corporate micromanagement directs people at such jobs (security checkpoints, timeclocks, timing bathroom breaks, prohibiting cell phones, etc), I think the scalable way to handle tornadoes is for the same management structure to direct people into designated shelters within the building. And sure if I were in such a position, I certainly wouldn't want to just trust management to take care of me in a top-down way. But I also wouldn't want management to use my option to individually prepare as an excuse to slack off on their facility preparation.
    - MisterTea 5y ago
      > Based on what I've read about the timeframe of tornadoes, I think a corporate policy of having people leave the building and go to their cars is a recipe for a mass casualty event in the parking lot. I was originally talking about emergencies in general. Not to specifically evacuate during a tornado.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
themaninthedark 5y ago
People do not act the way you think they act. During the 11th September 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center people took the time to shut down their computers before exiting. This is why every time you fly, they tell you during an emergency situation to leave your belongings on the plane. They are priming you so that if an event occurs you do not go into normal "leave plane mode". Here are two great resources to learn about people: https://www.fastcompany.com/90390969/human-behavior-in-crisis-situations https://www.fastcompany.com/90390969/human-behavior-in-crisi... http://clok.uclan.ac.uk/9573/1/Human%20Behaviour%20Paper%202012.pdf http://clok.uclan.ac.uk/9573/1/Human%20Behaviour%20Paper%202...
- MisterTea 5y ago
  > People do not act the way you think they act. > This is why every time you fly, they tell you during an emergency situation to leave your belongings on the plane. They are priming you so that if an event occurs you do not go into normal "leave plane mode". How is this different than my point of "Your shop should have implemented and tested an evacuation procedure and designated safe meeting spot ..." ?
  - themaninthedark 5y ago
    My original response is to the comment saying that the managers should have let the workers go home when they realized there was a tornado... >A reasonable/decent employer would have immediately sent everyone home for safety reasons alone. I detailed a believable timeline to how long it would take to do that and what would likely happen. >"Your shop should have implemented and tested an evacuation procedure and designated safe meeting spot ..." Completely agree and from comments in other parts of the thread, it seems like the company did in fact have a procedure that they did follow but it still lead to tragedy. Your previous comment indicates you would try and leave, which is ultimately your choice but also goes against all the expert advice of what to do in a tornado. I like to play a little game with myself whenever I enter a new building to determine what evac routes/shelter locations are available for different scenarios when ever I enter a new building. I think it is a good thing to think about/practice but other people have other things on their mind. The factory where I work has actually been hit by a tornado before I came to work here. One of the stories that they talk about is how they had to pull the VP of Sales or Finance back into the shelter(a stairwell) because he was trying to go into the lobby and secure the front doors that were being blown open by the wind.

mindslight 5y ago

IMO your comment seems to be imagining some a individualist hero do-anything-at-all-costs scenario ("top speed"), rather than the sluggish herd behavior that engineers design for. For example people are going to take some time to realize they need to take an alarm seriously, take a few minutes to collect their effects, shuffle to their cars, say goodbye to their coworkers, they will wait in traffic lines, etc. I strongly agree there needs to be institutional concern paid to tornadoes, but I don't think planning for workers to bug out in their cars is the right approach.

MisterTea 5y ago
> IMO your comment seems to be imagining some a individualist hero do-anything-at-all-costs scenario ("top speed"), rather than the sluggish herd behavior that engineers design for. Indeed this is just your opinion. And the whole individualist hero do anything quip is unnecessary reactionary nonsense. This is about being prepared for an emergency in your facility which entails quickly and safely getting to an exit. > For example people are going to take some time to realize they need to take an alarm seriously, take a few minutes to collect their effects, shuffle to their cars, say goodbye to their coworkers, they will wait in traffic lines, etc. Are they doing this during a fire? They most certainly should not be. > ... but I don't think planning for workers to bug out in their cars is the right approach. This isn't about going George Castanza and pushing old ladies to the floor to get to a fire exit. This is about knowing or having a plan in place and taking it seriously. Maybe your company provides it, maybe you have to figure it out yourself. Point is, always be prepared.
- mindslight 5y ago
  > Are they doing this during a fire? They most certainly should not be I've been in a few situations where a fire alarm is going off in a large building, and it created no sense of urgency. One was a shopping mall, with people milling about, half-wondering what the noise was, thinking as long as they could see an exit and didn't see a fire it was fine. Even being one who generally doesn't follow herds, I stayed in that state longer than I should have in retrospect. That's human nature, and a major reason of why companies do fire drills. > Maybe your company provides it, maybe you have to figure it out yourself. Point is, always be prepared. Yes, of course. Ultimately you are responsible for your own safety. Always be prepared. The problem arises if you take this philosophy as a given and assert that a large group of people will be individually prepared, as a license to avoid figuring out the institutional-scale problem. That is what I'm taking issue with here. Based on what I've read about the timeframe of tornadoes, I think a corporate policy of having people leave the building and go to their cars is a recipe for a mass casualty event in the parking lot. Given how heavily corporate micromanagement directs people at such jobs (security checkpoints, timeclocks, timing bathroom breaks, prohibiting cell phones, etc), I think the scalable way to handle tornadoes is for the same management structure to direct people into designated shelters within the building. And sure if I were in such a position, I certainly wouldn't want to just trust management to take care of me in a top-down way. But I also wouldn't want management to use my option to individually prepare as an excuse to slack off on their facility preparation.
  - MisterTea 5y ago
    > Based on what I've read about the timeframe of tornadoes, I think a corporate policy of having people leave the building and go to their cars is a recipe for a mass casualty event in the parking lot. I was originally talking about emergencies in general. Not to specifically evacuate during a tornado.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]

themaninthedark 5y ago

People do not act the way you think they act. During the 11th September 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center people took the time to shut down their computers before exiting. This is why every time you fly, they tell you during an emergency situation to leave your belongings on the plane. They are priming you so that if an event occurs you do not go into normal "leave plane mode". Here are two great resources to learn about people: https://www.fastcompany.com/90390969/human-behavior-in-crisis-situations https://www.fastcompany.com/90390969/human-behavior-in-crisi... http://clok.uclan.ac.uk/9573/1/Human%20Behaviour%20Paper%202012.pdf http://clok.uclan.ac.uk/9573/1/Human%20Behaviour%20Paper%202...

MisterTea 5y ago
> People do not act the way you think they act. > This is why every time you fly, they tell you during an emergency situation to leave your belongings on the plane. They are priming you so that if an event occurs you do not go into normal "leave plane mode". How is this different than my point of "Your shop should have implemented and tested an evacuation procedure and designated safe meeting spot ..." ?
- themaninthedark 5y ago
  My original response is to the comment saying that the managers should have let the workers go home when they realized there was a tornado... >A reasonable/decent employer would have immediately sent everyone home for safety reasons alone. I detailed a believable timeline to how long it would take to do that and what would likely happen. >"Your shop should have implemented and tested an evacuation procedure and designated safe meeting spot ..." Completely agree and from comments in other parts of the thread, it seems like the company did in fact have a procedure that they did follow but it still lead to tragedy. Your previous comment indicates you would try and leave, which is ultimately your choice but also goes against all the expert advice of what to do in a tornado. I like to play a little game with myself whenever I enter a new building to determine what evac routes/shelter locations are available for different scenarios when ever I enter a new building. I think it is a good thing to think about/practice but other people have other things on their mind. The factory where I work has actually been hit by a tornado before I came to work here. One of the stories that they talk about is how they had to pull the VP of Sales or Finance back into the shelter(a stairwell) because he was trying to go into the lobby and secure the front doors that were being blown open by the wind.