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And part of it is what public schools are doing to our kids. My 6 year old is required to sit outdoors to eat her lunch in 40ish degree (F) weather, and is not

And part of it is what public schools are doing to our kids. My 6 year old is required to sit outdoors to eat her lunch in 40ish degree (F) weather, and is not allowed to socialized. My 5 year old has to wear a mask 7 hours a day against an illness that doesn't kill kids. I'm at my wit's end with these school administrators. Hoping to be in Wyoming in 6 months' time.

anarchy8 5y ago
> My 5 year old has to wear a mask 7 hours a day against an illness that doesn't kill kids This is misinformation: https://www.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/children-and-covid-19-state-level-data-report/ https://www.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19...
- CountDrewku 5y ago
  Maybe you ought to pay more attention to what it actually says instead of getting upset at what is obviously a generalization about the overreaction to COVID when it comes to young children- >A smaller subset of states reported on hospitalizations and mortality by age; the available data indicate that COVID-19-associated hospitalization and death is uncommon in children. Here's a more accurate representation - https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Deaths-by-Sex-Ages-0-18-years/xa4b-4pzv https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Deaths-by-Sex-Ages-0-18-years/xa4b... Now, go look up how many of those kids were already immuno-compromised. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6937e4.htm?s_cid=mm6937e4_w https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6937e4.htm?s_cid=mm... That's just one report that mentions 75% with an underlying medical condition. When people say it doesn't kill kids they're generalizing, flagging it as misinformation is completely silly. By percentages and how we react to every other virus this is NOT something we should be scared of when it comes to children. We certainly shouldn't be subjecting children to measures that may cause psychological and developmental harm for something that's VERY unlikely to be a threat to them.
  - TurkishPoptart 5y ago
    Thanks for bringing in that hard data. I don't understand why the news media keeps saying "thank goodness kids can get vaccinated now!". Why are they trying to normalize annual or 2x a year shots for these kids, who are more likely to suffer from myocarditis as a result than to actually contract or get ill from this virus? Nobody freaking knows.
    - glial 5y ago
      Even if vaccination does nothing for kids except keep them from spreading it, it's net positive for the community. Of course, with omicron, who knows...
  - diveanon 5y ago
    Children are a vector for spreading the virus, this really isn’t complicated. The psychological “trauma” of wearing a mask is nothing compared to what these kids will feel when they give grandma covid over Christmas. It’s not about them.
    - CountDrewku 5y ago
      [flagged]
      - diveanon 5y ago
        [flagged]
        CountDrewku 5y ago
        >Asymptotically spreading COVID has been discussed and documented all over the world. I don’t believe this question is in good faith. Then you should easily be able to back that up with data. So please provide it. Hypothesis are not evidence. I have plenty of evidence that shows the opposite. https://adc.bmj.com/content/105/7/618 https://adc.bmj.com/content/105/7/618 https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200710100934.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200710100934.h... https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2778940?utm_source=For_The_Media&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_term=042621 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32430964/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32430964/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32914746/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32914746/ https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jmv.26394 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jmv.26394 Have fun. If you'd like more to keep you busy let me know :). >Some people would like to spend time with their families this Christmas without having to worry about their children being vectors for a fucking plague that has now mutated to dodge the vaccine. Normal people will not be wearing masks to Christmas. Why would we worry about children being vectors? "The science" doesn't back this up and even if it did there's a vaccine for it. Are you confused about how the vaccine works? If COVID is this big of a deal then you should just avoid Christmas and leave the rest of us alone. Why are you venturing out if it affects you that much? I have a hard time believing you're acting in good faith when it comes to stopping COVID infection and then talking about social gatherings. It appears that you just want to control others. >Wear a mask ffs so we can move on with our lives. Massive strawman happening here. I've already moved on with my life.. That happened like year ago when everyone was able to get the vaccine if they wished. You have health anxiety, get it treated please and stop turning your personal fears into authoritarian rhetoric you think you have the right to shove down other people's throats.
- TurkishPoptart 5y ago
  In your article, it says that: >Among states reporting, children were 0.00%-0.27% of all COVID-19 deaths, and 6 states reported zero child deaths >In states reporting, 0.00%-0.03% of all child COVID-19 cases resulted in death So how is what I said "misinformation"?
  - anarchy8 5y ago
    You said it doesn't kill kids. Kids are not magically immune from the virus. What you implied is extremely incorrect and harmful.
- anarchy8 5y ago
  Why am I not surprised that Hacker News is a hotbed of COVID misinformation?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
michaelcampbell 5y ago
> that doesn't kill kids While the numbers are low, it is not 0. This is, sadly, categorically untrue.
- TurkishPoptart 5y ago
  It's a double-digit number among healthy kids nationwide. Fewer than from influenza, peanut allergies, and accidents.
- CountDrewku 5y ago
  Can you provide an example of a child in that age range dying when without a secondary illness that made them high risk? All the examples I've seen are children with cancer or something else. The percentages still don't pan out to having such massive restrictions on children that young.
  - glial 5y ago
    https://www.startribune.com/minnesota-reports-third-covid-19-death-of-a-child/600050421/ https://www.startribune.com/minnesota-reports-third-covid-19...
    - CountDrewku 5y ago
      The title of that article should be enough to let you know how outside the norm that is. Do yourself a favor and look up leading causes of child death.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - glial 5y ago
        > Can you provide an example
  - michaelcampbell 5y ago
    > Can you provide an example of a child in that age range dying when without a secondary illness that made them high risk? All the examples I've seen are children with cancer or something else. Can you assert that without them getting covid, they would have died as quickly? > The percentages still don't pan out to having such massive restrictions on children that young. Which was never my assertion.
diveanon 5y ago
Your germ factory kids can still spread it. How are we still having this conversation 2 years in?
- TurkishPoptart 5y ago
  How are we still pretending that people who've received the vaccine (which should really be labeled a prophylactic) can't spread or contract the virus?
  - diveanon 5y ago
    [flagged]
    - TurkishPoptart 5y ago
      [flagged]
      - diveanon 5y ago
        [flagged]
    - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
      You don't sound like you're doing great yourself at "being a civil member of society". On that front, heal thyself...
      - diveanon 5y ago
        [flagged]
        AnimalMuppet 5y ago
        Sadly, the time for name-calling those who disagree with you has not yet passed, nor has the time of civility arrived.
jedberg 5y ago
Your child doesn't wear a mask to protect your child, they wear a mask to protect others. While they may not feel very strong effects from the virus, they can pass it on to other who will. FWIW our district is considering removing the mask mandate at school as soon as we reach 80% vax rate among the students, so hopefully your nightmare of making your child wear a piece of cloth will end soon.
- TurkishPoptart 5y ago
  Your district is going to remove the mandates when pigs fly, I'm sorry to say. The "nightmare" is really about continually-shifting goalposts and the false promises of administrators. The funny thing is that those figures won't be reached, thanks to parents with enough common sense not to inoculate their kids with something they don't need. If the parents are vaccinated, let the kids alone. If the parents aren't vaccinated, well, that's their choice - so let the kids alone.
  - jedberg 5y ago
    > continually-shifting goalposts and the false promises of administrators Ever since the vaccine came out our county has said that mandates will go away as soon as we hit 80% vaxxed and community transmission is low, as defined by the CDC. The goalposts haven't moved. We're almost there too -- we have 79.4% of all residents vaxxed, but transmission is still "substantial". > thanks to parents with enough common sense not to inoculate their kids with something they don't need. That's not how vaccines work. You get vaccinated to protect both yourself and others. We still vaccinate for polio even though it's basically been eradicated, because if we didn't, it would come back. Luckily I live in an area where people are mostly educated and believe in science, so our child vax rate is already at 64% fully vaxxed for the county, despite the fact that you could only be fully vaxxed as of last Thursday.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - TurkishPoptart 5y ago
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ryandrake 5y ago
You might not have heard, but the illness does (albeit very infrequently) kill kids, but more likely, kids can bring it home and infect their older, more vulnerable family members. Which is what recently happened in my kid's school district, when some nitwit parent also "at their wit's end with these school administrators" sent their COVID infected kid to school.
- TurkishPoptart 5y ago
  My wife and I are vaccinated. Any other "vulnerably family member" can get vaccinated, too. Problem solved, right? It _is_ in the land of reason and rationality, but not in bizarro world, where our governor and school administrators seem to live. Of course, since the beginning of time, our kids could transmit the influenza virus to "vulnerable family members" too, but we were wise enough not to subject them to humiliating practices such as having lunch by sitting in PNW winter-temperatures and barring socializing.
jmeister 5y ago
This is an interesting thread. The meta-issue here is that communities differ in their risk tolerance too. You just discovered that you are an outlier in your community. People can agree 100% on the “science” and still disagree on the risk-reward tradeoff: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efficient_frontier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efficient_frontier PS: the risk tolerance varies by issue. E.g. blue cities seem to have a lot of risk appetite when it comes to lenient treatment of crime. Or gun-use in other parts of the country.

anarchy8 5y ago

> My 5 year old has to wear a mask 7 hours a day against an illness that doesn't kill kids This is misinformation: https://www.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/children-and-covid-19-state-level-data-report/ https://www.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19...

CountDrewku 5y ago
Maybe you ought to pay more attention to what it actually says instead of getting upset at what is obviously a generalization about the overreaction to COVID when it comes to young children- >A smaller subset of states reported on hospitalizations and mortality by age; the available data indicate that COVID-19-associated hospitalization and death is uncommon in children. Here's a more accurate representation - https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Deaths-by-Sex-Ages-0-18-years/xa4b-4pzv https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Deaths-by-Sex-Ages-0-18-years/xa4b... Now, go look up how many of those kids were already immuno-compromised. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6937e4.htm?s_cid=mm6937e4_w https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6937e4.htm?s_cid=mm... That's just one report that mentions 75% with an underlying medical condition. When people say it doesn't kill kids they're generalizing, flagging it as misinformation is completely silly. By percentages and how we react to every other virus this is NOT something we should be scared of when it comes to children. We certainly shouldn't be subjecting children to measures that may cause psychological and developmental harm for something that's VERY unlikely to be a threat to them.
- TurkishPoptart 5y ago
  Thanks for bringing in that hard data. I don't understand why the news media keeps saying "thank goodness kids can get vaccinated now!". Why are they trying to normalize annual or 2x a year shots for these kids, who are more likely to suffer from myocarditis as a result than to actually contract or get ill from this virus? Nobody freaking knows.
  - glial 5y ago
    Even if vaccination does nothing for kids except keep them from spreading it, it's net positive for the community. Of course, with omicron, who knows...
- diveanon 5y ago
  Children are a vector for spreading the virus, this really isn’t complicated. The psychological “trauma” of wearing a mask is nothing compared to what these kids will feel when they give grandma covid over Christmas. It’s not about them.
  - CountDrewku 5y ago
    [flagged]
    - diveanon 5y ago
      [flagged]
      - CountDrewku 5y ago
        >Asymptotically spreading COVID has been discussed and documented all over the world. I don’t believe this question is in good faith. Then you should easily be able to back that up with data. So please provide it. Hypothesis are not evidence. I have plenty of evidence that shows the opposite. https://adc.bmj.com/content/105/7/618 https://adc.bmj.com/content/105/7/618 https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200710100934.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200710100934.h... https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2778940?utm_source=For_The_Media&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_term=042621 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32430964/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32430964/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32914746/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32914746/ https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jmv.26394 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jmv.26394 Have fun. If you'd like more to keep you busy let me know :). >Some people would like to spend time with their families this Christmas without having to worry about their children being vectors for a fucking plague that has now mutated to dodge the vaccine. Normal people will not be wearing masks to Christmas. Why would we worry about children being vectors? "The science" doesn't back this up and even if it did there's a vaccine for it. Are you confused about how the vaccine works? If COVID is this big of a deal then you should just avoid Christmas and leave the rest of us alone. Why are you venturing out if it affects you that much? I have a hard time believing you're acting in good faith when it comes to stopping COVID infection and then talking about social gatherings. It appears that you just want to control others. >Wear a mask ffs so we can move on with our lives. Massive strawman happening here. I've already moved on with my life.. That happened like year ago when everyone was able to get the vaccine if they wished. You have health anxiety, get it treated please and stop turning your personal fears into authoritarian rhetoric you think you have the right to shove down other people's throats.
TurkishPoptart 5y ago
In your article, it says that: >Among states reporting, children were 0.00%-0.27% of all COVID-19 deaths, and 6 states reported zero child deaths >In states reporting, 0.00%-0.03% of all child COVID-19 cases resulted in death So how is what I said "misinformation"?
- anarchy8 5y ago
  You said it doesn't kill kids. Kids are not magically immune from the virus. What you implied is extremely incorrect and harmful.
anarchy8 5y ago
Why am I not surprised that Hacker News is a hotbed of COVID misinformation?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

michaelcampbell 5y ago

> that doesn't kill kids While the numbers are low, it is not 0. This is, sadly, categorically untrue.

TurkishPoptart 5y ago
It's a double-digit number among healthy kids nationwide. Fewer than from influenza, peanut allergies, and accidents.
CountDrewku 5y ago
Can you provide an example of a child in that age range dying when without a secondary illness that made them high risk? All the examples I've seen are children with cancer or something else. The percentages still don't pan out to having such massive restrictions on children that young.
- glial 5y ago
  https://www.startribune.com/minnesota-reports-third-covid-19-death-of-a-child/600050421/ https://www.startribune.com/minnesota-reports-third-covid-19...
  - CountDrewku 5y ago
    The title of that article should be enough to let you know how outside the norm that is. Do yourself a favor and look up leading causes of child death.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - glial 5y ago
      > Can you provide an example
- michaelcampbell 5y ago
  > Can you provide an example of a child in that age range dying when without a secondary illness that made them high risk? All the examples I've seen are children with cancer or something else. Can you assert that without them getting covid, they would have died as quickly? > The percentages still don't pan out to having such massive restrictions on children that young. Which was never my assertion.

diveanon 5y ago

Your germ factory kids can still spread it. How are we still having this conversation 2 years in?

TurkishPoptart 5y ago
How are we still pretending that people who've received the vaccine (which should really be labeled a prophylactic) can't spread or contract the virus?
- diveanon 5y ago
  [flagged]
  - TurkishPoptart 5y ago
    [flagged]
    - diveanon 5y ago
      [flagged]
  - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
    You don't sound like you're doing great yourself at "being a civil member of society". On that front, heal thyself...
    - diveanon 5y ago
      [flagged]
      - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
        Sadly, the time for name-calling those who disagree with you has not yet passed, nor has the time of civility arrived.

jedberg 5y ago

Your child doesn't wear a mask to protect your child, they wear a mask to protect others. While they may not feel very strong effects from the virus, they can pass it on to other who will. FWIW our district is considering removing the mask mandate at school as soon as we reach 80% vax rate among the students, so hopefully your nightmare of making your child wear a piece of cloth will end soon.

TurkishPoptart 5y ago
Your district is going to remove the mandates when pigs fly, I'm sorry to say. The "nightmare" is really about continually-shifting goalposts and the false promises of administrators. The funny thing is that those figures won't be reached, thanks to parents with enough common sense not to inoculate their kids with something they don't need. If the parents are vaccinated, let the kids alone. If the parents aren't vaccinated, well, that's their choice - so let the kids alone.
- jedberg 5y ago
  > continually-shifting goalposts and the false promises of administrators Ever since the vaccine came out our county has said that mandates will go away as soon as we hit 80% vaxxed and community transmission is low, as defined by the CDC. The goalposts haven't moved. We're almost there too -- we have 79.4% of all residents vaxxed, but transmission is still "substantial". > thanks to parents with enough common sense not to inoculate their kids with something they don't need. That's not how vaccines work. You get vaccinated to protect both yourself and others. We still vaccinate for polio even though it's basically been eradicated, because if we didn't, it would come back. Luckily I live in an area where people are mostly educated and believe in science, so our child vax rate is already at 64% fully vaxxed for the county, despite the fact that you could only be fully vaxxed as of last Thursday.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - TurkishPoptart 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

ryandrake 5y ago

You might not have heard, but the illness does (albeit very infrequently) kill kids, but more likely, kids can bring it home and infect their older, more vulnerable family members. Which is what recently happened in my kid's school district, when some nitwit parent also "at their wit's end with these school administrators" sent their COVID infected kid to school.

TurkishPoptart 5y ago
My wife and I are vaccinated. Any other "vulnerably family member" can get vaccinated, too. Problem solved, right? It _is_ in the land of reason and rationality, but not in bizarro world, where our governor and school administrators seem to live. Of course, since the beginning of time, our kids could transmit the influenza virus to "vulnerable family members" too, but we were wise enough not to subject them to humiliating practices such as having lunch by sitting in PNW winter-temperatures and barring socializing.

jmeister 5y ago

This is an interesting thread. The meta-issue here is that communities differ in their risk tolerance too. You just discovered that you are an outlier in your community. People can agree 100% on the “science” and still disagree on the risk-reward tradeoff: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efficient_frontier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efficient_frontier PS: the risk tolerance varies by issue. E.g. blue cities seem to have a lot of risk appetite when it comes to lenient treatment of crime. Or gun-use in other parts of the country.