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Many like you are buying up lake-front properties in rural places. I recommend it, playing farmer-cowboy-houseboateer in Kentucky/Tennessee is a magnitude chea

Many like you are buying up lake-front properties in rural places. I recommend it, playing farmer-cowboy-houseboateer in Kentucky/Tennessee is a magnitude cheaper than out west, even if you fail, you are out less money than simply living elsewhere.

ethbr0 5y ago
Just learn the accent before you move there, and don't tell your neighbors where you're from.
- hagbard_c 5y ago
  Also don't vote for the policies which made you pick up your bags and leave the place you came from or your new place of residence will eventually start to look like the one you left.
  - vineyardmike 5y ago
    A lot of the "California problem" policies work at smaller city sizes and just fail when scaled to major city/metro, so would be great at a lot of those smaller towns. Especially because they can be more humane and well thought out than whatever that town had to start.
    - hagbard_c 5y ago
      > they can be more humane and well thought out than whatever that town had to start. In other words, you'll go to those small towns to teach those hicks some manners. No wonder they're not that keen on seeing refugees from "more humane and well thought out" places settle in their towns and villages. If that is your message to your new neighbours may I suggest you go somewhere more welcoming of those "humane and well thought out" policies? It is a sad thing that those places tend to be the ones people are moving away from but that means there should be lots of vacancies.
      - vineyardmike 5y ago
        > may I suggest you go somewhere more welcoming of those "humane and well thought out" policies? > those places tend to be the ones people are moving away from but that means there should be lots of vacancies. People have been moving away from those small towns for generations, and I feel like this speaks for itself.
        hagbard_c 5y ago
        They did not move because of "inhumane and not well thought out" policies, they moved because there was no employment to be had - Bruce Springsteen touched this in "The River", Chris Rea in "Steel River". Industry closed down, production moved overseas, people moved to what they hoped were greener pastures but found them to be gray and inhospitable. Now that employment can be had through a network connection people are moving back.
        vineyardmike 5y ago
        > there was no employment to be had Employment is a policy failure. Likely "not well thought out" if it didn't work as intended :) California and its policies have created an ton of jobs. So many jobs that theres not enough space to put the people who work those jobs. Much of Silicon Valley in the 50s was farmland. Why hasn't every other rural town transformed into the economic powerhouse of the 21st century? Could it be (partially) policy decisions? > Bruce Springsteen touched this Not the authority on human migratory patterns i'd expect.
        hagbard_c 5y ago
        Employment is a policy failure on a much larger scale than that of the small towns which lost the factories which moved overseas - whether that be in the USA or in Europe, doesn't matter. Do you think those small towns could have kept the rust belt alive if only they had some of those ex-Californians around to teach them those "well thought out and humane" policies? Would Appalachia have been a thriving centre of development had only the majors of Bumfuck and Podunk gotten their acts together? Of course not. The policies which gave California those jobs you mentioned are not the policies enacted by the current crop of Californian politicos. This can be seen by the population stats for the state which for the first time ever (?) see a downward trend [1] due to the number of people fleeing the place. Where California used to enact policies which made people flock to the place they now do the opposite. Maybe California was not the best example to give, seeing as how it is currently melting down in more than one way? Power failures, skyrocketing crime, rampant homelessness, tell me something which they're doing right... As to Springsteen not being "the authority" on "human migratory patterns"... really? Why does it take an "authority" to see jobs disappearing from your town/county/state? You forgot to mention Chris Rea, is he more of "an authority"? Of course he isn't and of course he is since this whole "authority" spiel is just that. Both Springsteen and Rea made songs about things they saw happening around them, both of them involve rivers, both saw the jobs disappearing. Rea noticed that there are salmon swimming in Steel River, Springsteen thinks back to better times. They're artists, not "authorities". [1] https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/californias-population-fell-time-history-77558322 https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/californias-population-f...
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    Most of the problems people are moving away from have been decades (or even centuries) in the making. Not sure the recently migrating voters should foot the blame for that.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > Also don't vote for the policies which made you pick up your bags and leave the place you came from or your new place of residence will eventually start to look like the one you left. Maybe people didn't leave because of the policies, but because of their position relative to them. I mean, people who aren't legacy homeowners and find California too expensive but otherwise like it might well prefer to become a homeowner and then have the place they are in become like California.
    - agensaequivocum 5y ago
      No. I left California because of its policies and the last thing I want is for my new state to become anything resembling California.
    - oceanplexian 5y ago
      People leave because of second-order effects to policies that they voted for. California is expensive because of decades of policy that make it hard to build housing, some of the more ridiculous ones I've heard are banning natural gas in new homes and mandating photovoltaic panels on all new constructions. Since basic economics still applies, prices get inflated, some of the people don't like the economics of what they voted for so they decide to move to Arizona or Texas or Florida and then once they've "got theirs" they smugly vote for more of the same policies that always apply to "someone else". Hence where the acronym NIMBYism comes from.
      - sagarm 5y ago
        Basic economics says prices are set based on supply+demand not cost. Cost of course affects supply, but right now the main housing supply limiter in urban areas is restrictive permitting and to some degree lack of construction labor (a nationwide echo of 2008). As a result increased construction costs mostly come out of landowner's returns. Most efficiency standards actually lower monthly housing costs, including your two examples of solar panels and natural gas bans. Note that the solar can be built offsite, and solar + electric is a natural (hah) combination.
  - hedora 5y ago
    The most destructive California laws I’ve seen (prop 13, disbanding mental health care for homeless, etc) were pushed through by conservatives long ago. (For example, Ronald Regan made it essentially impossible for mentally ill homeless to get health care, regardless of public funding or even their own personal wealth.) Silicon Valley types haven’t been in the state long enough to have voted for those polices, and are (in my experience) strongly against them. There is some really dumb stuff happening now in the name of progressives (like a state mandate that all cities reduce the number of commuter miles the road infrastructure supports), but they’re thinly-veiled NIMBY regulations that prop up property values for our landed gentry. Silicon Valley types leaving the state typically don’t hold their dynastic wealth by hoarding California housing.
- Jerrrry 5y ago
  Locals can't afford to live anywhere near the lakes, and the distances between places relegate travelers to cars. Your neighbors will be from Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Indiana, and they won't sound any more southern than their efforts.
- zeku 5y ago
  Honestly I'm from rural Tennessee. They aren't worried about you being an "outsider" they're most likely wondering if you're rich so they can overcharge you for work on your property.
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    I've got family in Athens, TN and from parts more easterly. That's generally true now and previously, but I wonder about the next decade+ as relocation shifts into higher gear. My historical impression has been that locals are usually okay with a few outsiders... but when it turns into a deluge, and everyone who moves there is wealthier than them... Well, better to be nondescript than driving around east TN or KY with a CA or NY plate.
    - jermaustin1 5y ago
      I have family in Nashville, friends in Austin, and former co-workers in Toledo and Columbus. They've all experienced the great migration from California, and they all feel very negatively about it. I live in Houston, TX now (and grew up here), and couldn't tell you whether we have any Californians here since we've always been a super diverse city.
      - Jerrrry 5y ago
        Nashville and Knoxville have tripled in operational and pragmatic density in the last 5 years. Having drove to Knoxville last week, the stroads have too many cars.
        jermaustin1 5y ago
        Only having been to Knoxville on purpose twice, it definitely felt way too busy for how small it was. I-40 was stopped basically on a random friday at noon. Same happens in Nashville, but Nashville is sooooo much bigger, it is expected.
        5y ago
- _jarroda 5y ago
  Sorry. Kentucky and Tennessee are full. Maybe try GA?
jermaustin1 5y ago
I'm currently in the process of buying my wife's grandpa's house in rural Louisiana. It isn't on a lot of land (only 1.5 acres), but he's selling it to us "at cost" and that was how much it cost him to build it 20 years ago. We haven't decided if we want to live there full time and give up all the niceties we currently enjoy (a target within 10 minutes vs 2.5 hours, every type of ethnic food you can imagine, etc)., but it is always there for when we retire. Starlink gets over 60mbps in the area, and my wife's telemedicine practice only needs 10mbps for SD video, which is what most of her clients run at anyway since they use their phones and iPads for their sessions.
- Jerrrry 5y ago
  >every type of ethnic food you can imagine I know it's hard to believe, but the only difference between a major metropolis and bum-fuck nowhere is the lack of ethnic food, and less stressful traffic. Almost all modern-niceties have been commodified to even the outer regions of the hills.
  - jermaustin1 5y ago
    I've spent months at my wife's grandpa's house, they are lacking (at least without making a full day's trip) in almost every modern convenience. What is funny though is once we close on it, he's loading up his 5th wheel and driving it to an even more remote property his friend owns out in Colorado. They are fully off-grid.
  - rowanajmarshall 5y ago
    As someone from bumfuck nowhere currently living in a megacity, there's more to it than that. Cultural events for one; the difference between a 20 minute train home and a 7 hour drive is pretty significant. Job availability is another one, remote helps but even with COVID we aren't there yet.
  - asdff 5y ago
    >Almost all modern-niceties have been commodified to even the outer regions of the hills. It's hard to commodify a large economy of local businesses like you'd find in a large city. I can't imagine anything worse than being beholden to a handful of chain stores or the amazon catalog for all my wants and wishes. I've been doing all my shopping lately with local businesses, hard to do that in smaller areas that lack the customer base needed to support all these different businesses locally.

ethbr0 5y ago

Just learn the accent before you move there, and don't tell your neighbors where you're from.

hagbard_c 5y ago
Also don't vote for the policies which made you pick up your bags and leave the place you came from or your new place of residence will eventually start to look like the one you left.
- vineyardmike 5y ago
  A lot of the "California problem" policies work at smaller city sizes and just fail when scaled to major city/metro, so would be great at a lot of those smaller towns. Especially because they can be more humane and well thought out than whatever that town had to start.
  - hagbard_c 5y ago
    > they can be more humane and well thought out than whatever that town had to start. In other words, you'll go to those small towns to teach those hicks some manners. No wonder they're not that keen on seeing refugees from "more humane and well thought out" places settle in their towns and villages. If that is your message to your new neighbours may I suggest you go somewhere more welcoming of those "humane and well thought out" policies? It is a sad thing that those places tend to be the ones people are moving away from but that means there should be lots of vacancies.
    - vineyardmike 5y ago
      > may I suggest you go somewhere more welcoming of those "humane and well thought out" policies? > those places tend to be the ones people are moving away from but that means there should be lots of vacancies. People have been moving away from those small towns for generations, and I feel like this speaks for itself.
      - hagbard_c 5y ago
        They did not move because of "inhumane and not well thought out" policies, they moved because there was no employment to be had - Bruce Springsteen touched this in "The River", Chris Rea in "Steel River". Industry closed down, production moved overseas, people moved to what they hoped were greener pastures but found them to be gray and inhospitable. Now that employment can be had through a network connection people are moving back.
        vineyardmike 5y ago
        > there was no employment to be had Employment is a policy failure. Likely "not well thought out" if it didn't work as intended :) California and its policies have created an ton of jobs. So many jobs that theres not enough space to put the people who work those jobs. Much of Silicon Valley in the 50s was farmland. Why hasn't every other rural town transformed into the economic powerhouse of the 21st century? Could it be (partially) policy decisions? > Bruce Springsteen touched this Not the authority on human migratory patterns i'd expect.
        hagbard_c 5y ago
        Employment is a policy failure on a much larger scale than that of the small towns which lost the factories which moved overseas - whether that be in the USA or in Europe, doesn't matter. Do you think those small towns could have kept the rust belt alive if only they had some of those ex-Californians around to teach them those "well thought out and humane" policies? Would Appalachia have been a thriving centre of development had only the majors of Bumfuck and Podunk gotten their acts together? Of course not. The policies which gave California those jobs you mentioned are not the policies enacted by the current crop of Californian politicos. This can be seen by the population stats for the state which for the first time ever (?) see a downward trend [1] due to the number of people fleeing the place. Where California used to enact policies which made people flock to the place they now do the opposite. Maybe California was not the best example to give, seeing as how it is currently melting down in more than one way? Power failures, skyrocketing crime, rampant homelessness, tell me something which they're doing right... As to Springsteen not being "the authority" on "human migratory patterns"... really? Why does it take an "authority" to see jobs disappearing from your town/county/state? You forgot to mention Chris Rea, is he more of "an authority"? Of course he isn't and of course he is since this whole "authority" spiel is just that. Both Springsteen and Rea made songs about things they saw happening around them, both of them involve rivers, both saw the jobs disappearing. Rea noticed that there are salmon swimming in Steel River, Springsteen thinks back to better times. They're artists, not "authorities". [1] https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/californias-population-fell-time-history-77558322 https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/californias-population-f...
- ethbr0 5y ago
  Most of the problems people are moving away from have been decades (or even centuries) in the making. Not sure the recently migrating voters should foot the blame for that.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Also don't vote for the policies which made you pick up your bags and leave the place you came from or your new place of residence will eventually start to look like the one you left. Maybe people didn't leave because of the policies, but because of their position relative to them. I mean, people who aren't legacy homeowners and find California too expensive but otherwise like it might well prefer to become a homeowner and then have the place they are in become like California.
  - agensaequivocum 5y ago
    No. I left California because of its policies and the last thing I want is for my new state to become anything resembling California.
  - oceanplexian 5y ago
    People leave because of second-order effects to policies that they voted for. California is expensive because of decades of policy that make it hard to build housing, some of the more ridiculous ones I've heard are banning natural gas in new homes and mandating photovoltaic panels on all new constructions. Since basic economics still applies, prices get inflated, some of the people don't like the economics of what they voted for so they decide to move to Arizona or Texas or Florida and then once they've "got theirs" they smugly vote for more of the same policies that always apply to "someone else". Hence where the acronym NIMBYism comes from.
    - sagarm 5y ago
      Basic economics says prices are set based on supply+demand not cost. Cost of course affects supply, but right now the main housing supply limiter in urban areas is restrictive permitting and to some degree lack of construction labor (a nationwide echo of 2008). As a result increased construction costs mostly come out of landowner's returns. Most efficiency standards actually lower monthly housing costs, including your two examples of solar panels and natural gas bans. Note that the solar can be built offsite, and solar + electric is a natural (hah) combination.
- hedora 5y ago
  The most destructive California laws I’ve seen (prop 13, disbanding mental health care for homeless, etc) were pushed through by conservatives long ago. (For example, Ronald Regan made it essentially impossible for mentally ill homeless to get health care, regardless of public funding or even their own personal wealth.) Silicon Valley types haven’t been in the state long enough to have voted for those polices, and are (in my experience) strongly against them. There is some really dumb stuff happening now in the name of progressives (like a state mandate that all cities reduce the number of commuter miles the road infrastructure supports), but they’re thinly-veiled NIMBY regulations that prop up property values for our landed gentry. Silicon Valley types leaving the state typically don’t hold their dynastic wealth by hoarding California housing.
Jerrrry 5y ago
Locals can't afford to live anywhere near the lakes, and the distances between places relegate travelers to cars. Your neighbors will be from Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Indiana, and they won't sound any more southern than their efforts.
zeku 5y ago
Honestly I'm from rural Tennessee. They aren't worried about you being an "outsider" they're most likely wondering if you're rich so they can overcharge you for work on your property.
- ethbr0 5y ago
  I've got family in Athens, TN and from parts more easterly. That's generally true now and previously, but I wonder about the next decade+ as relocation shifts into higher gear. My historical impression has been that locals are usually okay with a few outsiders... but when it turns into a deluge, and everyone who moves there is wealthier than them... Well, better to be nondescript than driving around east TN or KY with a CA or NY plate.
  - jermaustin1 5y ago
    I have family in Nashville, friends in Austin, and former co-workers in Toledo and Columbus. They've all experienced the great migration from California, and they all feel very negatively about it. I live in Houston, TX now (and grew up here), and couldn't tell you whether we have any Californians here since we've always been a super diverse city.
    - Jerrrry 5y ago
      Nashville and Knoxville have tripled in operational and pragmatic density in the last 5 years. Having drove to Knoxville last week, the stroads have too many cars.
      - jermaustin1 5y ago
        Only having been to Knoxville on purpose twice, it definitely felt way too busy for how small it was. I-40 was stopped basically on a random friday at noon. Same happens in Nashville, but Nashville is sooooo much bigger, it is expected.
        5y ago
_jarroda 5y ago
Sorry. Kentucky and Tennessee are full. Maybe try GA?

jermaustin1 5y ago

I'm currently in the process of buying my wife's grandpa's house in rural Louisiana. It isn't on a lot of land (only 1.5 acres), but he's selling it to us "at cost" and that was how much it cost him to build it 20 years ago. We haven't decided if we want to live there full time and give up all the niceties we currently enjoy (a target within 10 minutes vs 2.5 hours, every type of ethnic food you can imagine, etc)., but it is always there for when we retire. Starlink gets over 60mbps in the area, and my wife's telemedicine practice only needs 10mbps for SD video, which is what most of her clients run at anyway since they use their phones and iPads for their sessions.

Jerrrry 5y ago
>every type of ethnic food you can imagine I know it's hard to believe, but the only difference between a major metropolis and bum-fuck nowhere is the lack of ethnic food, and less stressful traffic. Almost all modern-niceties have been commodified to even the outer regions of the hills.
- jermaustin1 5y ago
  I've spent months at my wife's grandpa's house, they are lacking (at least without making a full day's trip) in almost every modern convenience. What is funny though is once we close on it, he's loading up his 5th wheel and driving it to an even more remote property his friend owns out in Colorado. They are fully off-grid.
- rowanajmarshall 5y ago
  As someone from bumfuck nowhere currently living in a megacity, there's more to it than that. Cultural events for one; the difference between a 20 minute train home and a 7 hour drive is pretty significant. Job availability is another one, remote helps but even with COVID we aren't there yet.
- asdff 5y ago
  >Almost all modern-niceties have been commodified to even the outer regions of the hills. It's hard to commodify a large economy of local businesses like you'd find in a large city. I can't imagine anything worse than being beholden to a handful of chain stores or the amazon catalog for all my wants and wishes. I've been doing all my shopping lately with local businesses, hard to do that in smaller areas that lack the customer base needed to support all these different businesses locally.