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> using a metric-labeled screwdriver on an imperial-measured screw that still gets the job done exactly as needed This is super ignorant. You risk stripping t

> using a metric-labeled screwdriver on an imperial-measured screw that still gets the job done exactly as needed This is super ignorant. You risk stripping the screw and getting yourself into a frustrating screw extraction job. Just because you lived, doesn't mean it was safe.

jrm4 5y ago
Sure, let's beat up this metaphor. I would say the ignorant one of us is the one who isn't taking into account the nature of the job being done? What makes you think that a) my task is life or death and also b) I'm not equipped to figure out how dangerous it is? To pull out the camera. I'd like to spread Unix tools to everyone, or at least "more people than use them now." I understand though, for a lot of people, they'd rather gatekeep.
- DarylZero 5y ago
  It doesn't matter whether it's life or death. If you end up having to extract that screw it's going to be a big headache. You just shouldn't use an "almost"-fitting screwdriver or wrench. I'm not trying to "gatekeep." I'm not trying to talk about the shell metaphorically. I'm literally talking about screws.
- carapace 5y ago
  You picked a bad metaphor, eh? > The primary cause of this discrepancy was that one piece of ground software supplied by Lockheed Martin produced results in a United States customary unit, contrary to its Software Interface Specification (SIS), while a second system, supplied by NASA, expected those results to be in SI units, in accordance with the SIS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter#Cause_of_failure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter#Cause_of_... It's hardly gatekeeping to try to teach people better ways to do things.
  - jrm4 5y ago
    No, it's a good one. What y'all mistakenly assumed was the idea of "every computer task is a life or death one" instead of considering the idea that there can be different levels of care for different levels of danger. The reason many people in IT can't think outside of this idea is that they are (subconsciously) reluctant to open the gates for others. As a teacher in IT I quite literally deal with this every day.
    - carapace 5y ago
      I really don't think that teaching people better ways to do things is exclusionary. The OP even included the reasons why their version is preferable. You really see that as complaining and gatekeeping? An 'utterly and completely necessary "correction."'?
      - jrm4 5y ago
        The problem is that it's rarely "Oh, I see that your way works. But here's another way that I'm pretty sure is better, and here's why." It's nearly always "WRONG. THIS IS THE ONLY ACCEPTABLE WAY TO DO IT."
  - philwelch 5y ago
    Comparing the failure of a multi million dollar space probe to a stripped screw head seems like an even worse analogy to me.
    - carapace 5y ago
      The moral of the story is "Don't mix metric and imperial." Using that as an example of a trivial thing that shouldn't be corrected is foolish and ignorant. It's practically inviting Murphy.
      - philwelch 5y ago
        The moral of the story is “don’t mix units”. It would have been the same problem if the units were inches and feet or meters and kilometers as it is with feet and meters.
howdydoo 5y ago
Slightly off topic, but is this something people worry about in the real world? I have about 9 random screwdrivers, and when I need one I just try them all until one seems to fit. And if it doesn't, I... stop, instead of stripping the screw. I couldn't tell you if a single one of them was metric or imperial
- DarylZero 5y ago
  There is no such thing as metric or imperial screw heads. There are various ISO/ANSI standards.
- jrm4 5y ago
  :) That's the other thing about my example, it was just a doofy little thing I made up.
- BenjiWiebe 5y ago
  I work on small engines. Their carburetors usually are held together with JIS screws, which do look like Phillips. You can tell if someone took it apart with Phillips, though, as the screw is (basically anyways) visibly damaged and the screwdriver doesn't seat as well.

jrm4 5y ago

Sure, let's beat up this metaphor. I would say the ignorant one of us is the one who isn't taking into account the nature of the job being done? What makes you think that a) my task is life or death and also b) I'm not equipped to figure out how dangerous it is? To pull out the camera. I'd like to spread Unix tools to everyone, or at least "more people than use them now." I understand though, for a lot of people, they'd rather gatekeep.

DarylZero 5y ago
It doesn't matter whether it's life or death. If you end up having to extract that screw it's going to be a big headache. You just shouldn't use an "almost"-fitting screwdriver or wrench. I'm not trying to "gatekeep." I'm not trying to talk about the shell metaphorically. I'm literally talking about screws.
carapace 5y ago
You picked a bad metaphor, eh? > The primary cause of this discrepancy was that one piece of ground software supplied by Lockheed Martin produced results in a United States customary unit, contrary to its Software Interface Specification (SIS), while a second system, supplied by NASA, expected those results to be in SI units, in accordance with the SIS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter#Cause_of_failure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter#Cause_of_... It's hardly gatekeeping to try to teach people better ways to do things.
- jrm4 5y ago
  No, it's a good one. What y'all mistakenly assumed was the idea of "every computer task is a life or death one" instead of considering the idea that there can be different levels of care for different levels of danger. The reason many people in IT can't think outside of this idea is that they are (subconsciously) reluctant to open the gates for others. As a teacher in IT I quite literally deal with this every day.
  - carapace 5y ago
    I really don't think that teaching people better ways to do things is exclusionary. The OP even included the reasons why their version is preferable. You really see that as complaining and gatekeeping? An 'utterly and completely necessary "correction."'?
    - jrm4 5y ago
      The problem is that it's rarely "Oh, I see that your way works. But here's another way that I'm pretty sure is better, and here's why." It's nearly always "WRONG. THIS IS THE ONLY ACCEPTABLE WAY TO DO IT."
- philwelch 5y ago
  Comparing the failure of a multi million dollar space probe to a stripped screw head seems like an even worse analogy to me.
  - carapace 5y ago
    The moral of the story is "Don't mix metric and imperial." Using that as an example of a trivial thing that shouldn't be corrected is foolish and ignorant. It's practically inviting Murphy.
    - philwelch 5y ago
      The moral of the story is “don’t mix units”. It would have been the same problem if the units were inches and feet or meters and kilometers as it is with feet and meters.

howdydoo 5y ago

Slightly off topic, but is this something people worry about in the real world? I have about 9 random screwdrivers, and when I need one I just try them all until one seems to fit. And if it doesn't, I... stop, instead of stripping the screw. I couldn't tell you if a single one of them was metric or imperial

DarylZero 5y ago
There is no such thing as metric or imperial screw heads. There are various ISO/ANSI standards.
jrm4 5y ago
:) That's the other thing about my example, it was just a doofy little thing I made up.
BenjiWiebe 5y ago
I work on small engines. Their carburetors usually are held together with JIS screws, which do look like Phillips. You can tell if someone took it apart with Phillips, though, as the screw is (basically anyways) visibly damaged and the screwdriver doesn't seat as well.