3 ms·

half of them I never even heard of...just goes to show the lack of coverage for self funded companies

by vaksel 15y ago

davidw 15y ago
I think the companies you've never heard of are the most interesting of all, in some ways. It means that "being famous" isn't part and parcel of their success. 37signals, while being a good group of people, seem to have found success in a way that I'm not sure is as easy to repeat as some of those companies that just crank away doing their thing and making their money without needing a hugely followed blog, books, web frameworks and the like. This makes me a bit dubious of some of what they have to say.
- studiofellow 15y ago
  Fair point about 37signals, but remember they didn't start with the popular blog, books, and framework. it took years to get to that point. Everyone starts somewhere. That said, I've noticed some of the advice (mostly about marketing) doesn't really apply when you're just starting out.
  - jasonfried 15y ago
    This is where we started: http://37signals.com/manifesto http://37signals.com/manifesto
diolpah 15y ago
Those of us who are running profitable bootstrapped companies tend to put less effort into getting our name in the tech or business press. It is more important that we get our name into the minds of our customers, as our cash flow does not come from Sand Hill Road. So, this lack of coverage should come as no surprise.
- davidw 15y ago
  That's something I've been wrestling with lately. LiberWriter has started to turn a profit, and I'm wondering if I should copy Balsamiq's transparency / blog posts about early success. In some ways I'd like to, because publicity should help a bit in any case, but getting on HN really isn't going to get us any new customers.
  - jswinghammer 15y ago
    I would say don't do it. I'm in a similar position (profitable company with an interesting back-story) and it seems like a bad idea to start giving out your personal financial details to the world.
    - sixtofour 15y ago
      But there's probably an interesting middle ground.
      - davidw 15y ago
        What would that be, though? Either you're talking about your company and making some information public, or you aren't. If you're going to go down that route, granted you may not want to reveal everything, but you should probably do enough to get some attention, if that's the point. Otherwise you're just revealing information for no benefit.
        truthseeker 15y ago
        I find Rand Fishkin incredible in sharing all the details of SeoMoz. It takes guts to do that. Balsamiq, Bingo Card creator and a few others on HN are transparent when it is not a great deal of money. (I haven't seen Balsamiq post detailed revenue and their breakup lately.) I would say do what feels comfortable to you. Most likely, it is to keep revenues etc. secret. Revealing those details might get some eyeballs in the short term but not customers.
        15y ago
- MicahWedemeyer 15y ago
  +1000 on this. It took me a long time to realize, but I can either spend my time trying to be a big deal in the tech blogosphere, or try to engage with my actual customers. If HN users aren't your customer base, then coverage in TC or HN frontpage will do nothing for you. It may stroke your ego, but it won't pad your pocketbook.
- uurayan 15y ago
  100% true. You don't really need tech blog press if your market is not tech blog readers.
- Hisoka 15y ago
  Agreed. Just look at the Techcrunch Deadpool and you'll see many examples of companies that have "Featured in Techcrunch, NY Times, etc" in their homepage, yet managed to fail. Winning a popularity contest isn't what it's all about. Boosts your ego, sure, but not necessarily revenue. If you get featured in a publication, great, if not don't fret about it. Maybe <1% of people who find you thru Techcrunch will become loyal customers.
jswinghammer 15y ago
Right but in many cases the companies don't really want to share their revenue numbers. It's sort of saying to people who would like to compete here is how little it cost to build, how much people have been willing to pay, and how big of a win starting this business would be. I don't really see myself talking about revenue numbers for my company. Not sure how I benefit from it besides the ego and status boost which isn't interesting to me.
- davidw 15y ago
  Certainly good points. A counterpoint might be patio11's bingo card thing. If there's anything where "I could build that in a weekend!", it's something like that. I'm not sure if the publicity here helped his bingo business at all, but it doesn't seem to have killed it either, and it certainly opened up other profitable avenues for him.
- studiofellow 15y ago
  I think the main reason to share numbers is to encourage others starting businesses. I don't care at all when someone says they make millions. But when I see someone who started out by making $100 a month and grew from there, I can learn from what they did. Others can do it too.
goblgobl 15y ago
Is it a lack of coverage or just strategically staying under the radar? I think the lopsided press coverage of VC-backed vs. bootstrapped makes sense when you think about the incentives: VCs are focused on liquidity events (acquisition, IPO), so their startups might aim to be in the tech press and divulge details about revenue, growth, etc in an effort to pump up their valuations. If you run a profitable bootstrapped company and you are reaching your customers, why speak to the tech press and discuss your financials? It would attract competition and I can't think of any upside.
- diolpah 15y ago
  "If you run a profitable bootstrapped company and you are reaching your customers, why speak to the tech press and discuss your financials? It would attract competition and I can't think of any upside." I don't know about disclosing financial details, but the answer to the rest of your question is ego. Many people succumb easily to the desire for social recognition, even at the cost of strategic advantage. Speaking from personal experience, it is sometimes difficult building a solid business that goes completely unrecognized outside of your own customers. It's a normal and accepted part of doing a boring business, but I can at least understand those who allocate resources to the pursuit of a little bit of ego gratification.
  - studiofellow 15y ago
    It's fair to say validation and feedback from peers is a valid reason too, not just ego.

half of them I never even heard of...just goes to show the lack of coverage for self funded companies

by vaksel 15y ago

half of them I never even heard of...just goes to show the lack of coverage for self funded companies

I think the companies you've never heard of are the most interesting of all, in some ways. It means that "being famous" isn't part and parcel of their success. 37signals, while being a good group of people, seem to have found success in a way that I'm not sure is as easy to repeat as some of those companies that just crank away doing their thing and making their money without needing a hugely followed blog, books, web frameworks and the like. This makes me a bit dubious of some of what they have to say.

studiofellow 15y ago
Fair point about 37signals, but remember they didn't start with the popular blog, books, and framework. it took years to get to that point. Everyone starts somewhere. That said, I've noticed some of the advice (mostly about marketing) doesn't really apply when you're just starting out.
- jasonfried 15y ago
  This is where we started: http://37signals.com/manifesto http://37signals.com/manifesto

diolpah 15y ago

Those of us who are running profitable bootstrapped companies tend to put less effort into getting our name in the tech or business press. It is more important that we get our name into the minds of our customers, as our cash flow does not come from Sand Hill Road. So, this lack of coverage should come as no surprise.

davidw 15y ago
That's something I've been wrestling with lately. LiberWriter has started to turn a profit, and I'm wondering if I should copy Balsamiq's transparency / blog posts about early success. In some ways I'd like to, because publicity should help a bit in any case, but getting on HN really isn't going to get us any new customers.
- jswinghammer 15y ago
  I would say don't do it. I'm in a similar position (profitable company with an interesting back-story) and it seems like a bad idea to start giving out your personal financial details to the world.
  - sixtofour 15y ago
    But there's probably an interesting middle ground.
    - davidw 15y ago
      What would that be, though? Either you're talking about your company and making some information public, or you aren't. If you're going to go down that route, granted you may not want to reveal everything, but you should probably do enough to get some attention, if that's the point. Otherwise you're just revealing information for no benefit.
      - truthseeker 15y ago
        I find Rand Fishkin incredible in sharing all the details of SeoMoz. It takes guts to do that. Balsamiq, Bingo Card creator and a few others on HN are transparent when it is not a great deal of money. (I haven't seen Balsamiq post detailed revenue and their breakup lately.) I would say do what feels comfortable to you. Most likely, it is to keep revenues etc. secret. Revealing those details might get some eyeballs in the short term but not customers.
        15y ago
MicahWedemeyer 15y ago
+1000 on this. It took me a long time to realize, but I can either spend my time trying to be a big deal in the tech blogosphere, or try to engage with my actual customers. If HN users aren't your customer base, then coverage in TC or HN frontpage will do nothing for you. It may stroke your ego, but it won't pad your pocketbook.
uurayan 15y ago
100% true. You don't really need tech blog press if your market is not tech blog readers.
Hisoka 15y ago
Agreed. Just look at the Techcrunch Deadpool and you'll see many examples of companies that have "Featured in Techcrunch, NY Times, etc" in their homepage, yet managed to fail. Winning a popularity contest isn't what it's all about. Boosts your ego, sure, but not necessarily revenue. If you get featured in a publication, great, if not don't fret about it. Maybe <1% of people who find you thru Techcrunch will become loyal customers.

jswinghammer 15y ago

Right but in many cases the companies don't really want to share their revenue numbers. It's sort of saying to people who would like to compete here is how little it cost to build, how much people have been willing to pay, and how big of a win starting this business would be. I don't really see myself talking about revenue numbers for my company. Not sure how I benefit from it besides the ego and status boost which isn't interesting to me.

davidw 15y ago
Certainly good points. A counterpoint might be patio11's bingo card thing. If there's anything where "I could build that in a weekend!", it's something like that. I'm not sure if the publicity here helped his bingo business at all, but it doesn't seem to have killed it either, and it certainly opened up other profitable avenues for him.
studiofellow 15y ago
I think the main reason to share numbers is to encourage others starting businesses. I don't care at all when someone says they make millions. But when I see someone who started out by making $100 a month and grew from there, I can learn from what they did. Others can do it too.

goblgobl 15y ago

Is it a lack of coverage or just strategically staying under the radar? I think the lopsided press coverage of VC-backed vs. bootstrapped makes sense when you think about the incentives: VCs are focused on liquidity events (acquisition, IPO), so their startups might aim to be in the tech press and divulge details about revenue, growth, etc in an effort to pump up their valuations. If you run a profitable bootstrapped company and you are reaching your customers, why speak to the tech press and discuss your financials? It would attract competition and I can't think of any upside.

diolpah 15y ago
"If you run a profitable bootstrapped company and you are reaching your customers, why speak to the tech press and discuss your financials? It would attract competition and I can't think of any upside." I don't know about disclosing financial details, but the answer to the rest of your question is ego. Many people succumb easily to the desire for social recognition, even at the cost of strategic advantage. Speaking from personal experience, it is sometimes difficult building a solid business that goes completely unrecognized outside of your own customers. It's a normal and accepted part of doing a boring business, but I can at least understand those who allocate resources to the pursuit of a little bit of ego gratification.
- studiofellow 15y ago
  It's fair to say validation and feedback from peers is a valid reason too, not just ego.