4 ms·

So, without financial or similar incentives given to people who host it, how does anyone expect a non-financial model work? Maybe that "proof of waste" is solv

So, without financial or similar incentives given to people who host it, how does anyone expect a non-financial model work? Maybe that "proof of waste" is solving a real problem (though I'd also favor for a more environmentally friendly consensus algorithm)

pornel 5y ago
The models we currently have: • p2p (like bittorrent) which shifts bandwidth costs to recipients. • Too cheap to care. For simple things like a blog, cost of hosting asymptotically approaches zero. • Subsidized by other business. Think why HN is free.
selfhoster11 5y ago
The solution is to create a federated network of installations each serving a small community. Be it that this community is a school, a business, a family, or a group of 20 friends who all play on the same Minecraft server. They will want to run a community just for the sheer joy (or coordination benefits) of it, as long as we make it inexpensive to run and possible to operate by a power user rather than requiring an IT expert.
ReleaseCandidat 5y ago
That's the easy part. In a peer-to-peer network every participant hosts content from others.
- can16358p 5y ago
  Technically it's solved. Socially/economically, without incentives is hard to scale for it to be practically usable for the masses.
jazzyjackson 5y ago
Volunteer run organizations are way more fun and high quality than anything commercial. They of course do not scale, but therein lies the charm.
- janeroe 5y ago
  > Volunteer run organizations are way more ... high quality than anything commercial In what universe?
  - jazzyjackson 5y ago
    Speaking to the quality of the organization - the people in it and the relationships between them. I used to be part of a couple of hackerspaces. The expertise and labor we received as a volunteer organization could not be bought. Once we started making money and hired staff, the magic was gone. Basically like when your hobby becomes work. You see it with TikTok and YouTube as well, of course the commercialization pays for a lot of high quality content, but it's basically TV at this point, for every high quality channel there's 1000 people trying anything to get ad revenue and it makes the whole thing hard to wade through. Compare that with the Vine compilations now archived on YouTube, some of the funniest, more original humor IMO, and no one was doing it to get paid (tho a few were able to pivot into internet celebrity-dom)
    - selfhoster11 5y ago
      Yup, you can't buy passion, not the kind that goes above and beyond to do kindness to the other person. Community and volunteer organizations thrive when this is present.
  - selfhoster11 5y ago
    Volunteer organizations are ultimately about friends*. Be it a church, a dog sanctuary, a small non-profit cafe or cinema, or an open market, the ultimate thing that matters is that we get to hang out and mutually enjoy each other, possibly help those that require it. Other benefits are important, but if not for the social aspect, it would be horribly transactional, which diminishes quality of life experienced. * Friends = other living beings too, such as pets or other things that we want to see grow and live happily

pornel 5y ago

The models we currently have: • p2p (like bittorrent) which shifts bandwidth costs to recipients. • Too cheap to care. For simple things like a blog, cost of hosting asymptotically approaches zero. • Subsidized by other business. Think why HN is free.

selfhoster11 5y ago

The solution is to create a federated network of installations each serving a small community. Be it that this community is a school, a business, a family, or a group of 20 friends who all play on the same Minecraft server. They will want to run a community just for the sheer joy (or coordination benefits) of it, as long as we make it inexpensive to run and possible to operate by a power user rather than requiring an IT expert.

ReleaseCandidat 5y ago

That's the easy part. In a peer-to-peer network every participant hosts content from others.

can16358p 5y ago
Technically it's solved. Socially/economically, without incentives is hard to scale for it to be practically usable for the masses.

jazzyjackson 5y ago

Volunteer run organizations are way more fun and high quality than anything commercial. They of course do not scale, but therein lies the charm.

janeroe 5y ago
> Volunteer run organizations are way more ... high quality than anything commercial In what universe?
- jazzyjackson 5y ago
  Speaking to the quality of the organization - the people in it and the relationships between them. I used to be part of a couple of hackerspaces. The expertise and labor we received as a volunteer organization could not be bought. Once we started making money and hired staff, the magic was gone. Basically like when your hobby becomes work. You see it with TikTok and YouTube as well, of course the commercialization pays for a lot of high quality content, but it's basically TV at this point, for every high quality channel there's 1000 people trying anything to get ad revenue and it makes the whole thing hard to wade through. Compare that with the Vine compilations now archived on YouTube, some of the funniest, more original humor IMO, and no one was doing it to get paid (tho a few were able to pivot into internet celebrity-dom)
  - selfhoster11 5y ago
    Yup, you can't buy passion, not the kind that goes above and beyond to do kindness to the other person. Community and volunteer organizations thrive when this is present.
- selfhoster11 5y ago
  Volunteer organizations are ultimately about friends*. Be it a church, a dog sanctuary, a small non-profit cafe or cinema, or an open market, the ultimate thing that matters is that we get to hang out and mutually enjoy each other, possibly help those that require it. Other benefits are important, but if not for the social aspect, it would be horribly transactional, which diminishes quality of life experienced. * Friends = other living beings too, such as pets or other things that we want to see grow and live happily