7 ms·

This is true, don't know why you're getting downvoted. Raspberry Pi, BeagleBone and various arm based embedded systems played a much higher role in getting mos

This is true, don't know why you're getting downvoted. Raspberry Pi, BeagleBone and various arm based embedded systems played a much higher role in getting most linux, BSD tools working under arm. Same thing that’s happening now with RISC-V and SiFive’s boards. It’s not apple M1 that’s making this migration possible, its just the cherry on top of a cake. The cake was all those consumer arm boards and dev kits which got in the hands of various OS developers, software maintainers. Who put in their time to port their codebases to arm and ensure compatibility.

MisterTea 5y ago
> This is true, don't know why you're getting downvoted. Apples are upset their $2000+ laptop isn't the revolutionary catalyst for the Arm revolution but instead a crappy $25 computer that's been around for a decade.
- vmladenov 5y ago
  When are the new n-gate posts coming out?
  - MisterTea 5y ago
    I am not the n-gate maintainer, just someone who enjoys the humor. Last I heard the maintainer has been busy and unable to dedicate enough time. They hang out in in #cat-v on oftc.net.
  - anaganisk 5y ago
    N-gate has no love for pis either. The article would’ve been like, Apples and Pis fight over whose shitty processor paved the way for more underpowered devices , while intel continues war against its users.
- dang 5y ago
  Please don't post in the flamewar style. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
GhettoComputers 5y ago
>Raspberry Pi, BeagleBone and various arm based embedded systems played a much higher role in getting most linux, BSD tools working under arm. I don't disagree, but going mainstream is different. >It’s not apple M1 that’s making this migration possible, its just the cherry on top of a cake. M1 would not exist without the Apple's App store all based on ARM.
BizarroLand 5y ago
It makes sense, we build for what we play with. You gotta give us the nails if you want to sell a hammer.
llukas 5y ago
M1 brings large customer base paying for stuff. Raspberry Pi doesn't have that big of a $$$ splash.
- wooger 5y ago
  Ha, large customer base of very expensive laptops, that's actually tiny compared to the customer base of arm servers, Rpis. None of the paid software with a tiny userbase you're thinking of is relevant to the server market, the point is that it's free and open.
- MayeulC 5y ago
  Are you going to run Apple software on your servers? Most servers leverage the Linux ecosystem, most of which is open-source and maintained by developers who do not have big $$$. M1 probably enables the same transition for customer-oriented, proprietary apps. But it has little to do with cloud computing, except proving that performance and ARM are not mutually exclusive, thus providing more acceptance.
  - thecompilr 5y ago
    Huh? I am developing natively in macOS for a Linux server using Rust. Everything just runs fine on both. Unless I need to go really low into syscalls I have no reason to be writing and testing my code on Linux.
    - the_mitsuhiko 5y ago
      You’re supporting that point though. A big initial move for ARM in rust was raspberry pi.
      - thecompilr 5y ago
        The post I replied to said M1 only gonna help user applications, not servers, I claim that it helps both.
  - jbverschoor 5y ago
flyinglizard 5y ago
This started long before Pi. StrongARM existed 20 years ago and the new generation of application processors which pushed forward ARM started around 2005 (Atmel, TI, Freescale, Qualcomm and others) with the ARM9 core. Pi entered a mature ecosystem, it just made it a bit more consumer/newbie facing but the system level foundations were all there. Ironically the Pi isn’t even particularly well supported in terms of drivers compared to commercial offerings.
- alpanka 5y ago
  No, but pi is what gave us the software! While strongarm and others have been around longer, none had any real mass market hold. With Pi & co, you can build a (slow) server with $35. You can build a k8 cluster with $150. That's why we have cross platform packages for almost anything server related.
  - flyinglizard 5y ago
    You could do just that before. Cross compiling for ARM is an ancient, dark craft. All that changed for the better (and admittedly much better for the hobbyists) is getting prebuilt binaries in the major distributions.
    - alpanka 5y ago
      Before pi & co, cross compiling was a black art. You often needed to build your own toolchain and the target environment were often not standardized either so you would need different compilers for each target. Fast forward to today, you can apt-get cross-compilers and build tools.
      - Nursie 5y ago
        While it was a hassle, you could use pre-built cross compilers on debian before the Pi came along, as I was in 2010/11. Multi-arch helped a lot when it was introduced too.
      - GhettoComputers 5y ago
Nursie 5y ago
It's probably because linux on arm has been around longer than the Pi, but a lot of people seem to hold this idea it was pioneering. It was pioneering in how low-cost and mass market it was at launch, but before the Pi there was plug computing, largely based around Marvell Kirkwood processors. There were also a variety of hackable NAS devices, I used some with Orion5x CPUS in. Then before plug computing there was the linksys NSLU2 with its Intel Xscale IXP chip, and all the hackable linksys routers going back to 2002, and that's just some of the stuff I've played with over the years. Before that I imagine there were previous generations of linux ARM support. The Pi and other hobby boards are really great, don't get me wrong, but there's a tendency to credit them with a bit too much.
- mschuster91 5y ago
  > Then before plug computing there was the linksys NSLU2 with its Intel Xscale IXP chip Whoa, haven't heard that one in a looong time. Still have mine sitting in a storage closet, I think...
  - Nursie 5y ago
    They were great little machines! I used to run my own mail server on one and use another as a media server. I even did a small hardware mod and soldered a wifi card to one of the internal USB headers on one of them. Much fun! I don't imagine the processing power stands up to modern devices though :)
- selfhoster11 5y ago
  Plug computing and Linksys routers weren't cheap, and the Pi was. That's the entire difference when your target audience is kids with a couple of dollars worth of allowance or broke college kids.
  - bityard 5y ago
    > Plug computing and Linksys routers weren't cheap, and the Pi was. For their time (20 years ago), they certainly were cheap. $100 or so for a small power efficient box that could run almost a whole Linux distribution was an amazing bargain. Before that, you needed a good-sized desktop or server to do anything involving a Unix-like OS, or paid dearly for the convenience of a laptop. And it wasn't much before that, that running Unix on any microcomputer was just a dream. It's hard to comprend just how amazingly affordable computing has become in such a short amount of time.
kuschku 5y ago
I can confirm, the RPi is the only reason I provide armhf and aarch64 builds of all my projects. It really helped accelerate the long tail.
- alias_neo 5y ago
  Same, I only added ARM Docker images for my stuff because I'm an avid Pi user.

MisterTea 5y ago

> This is true, don't know why you're getting downvoted. Apples are upset their $2000+ laptop isn't the revolutionary catalyst for the Arm revolution but instead a crappy $25 computer that's been around for a decade.

vmladenov 5y ago
When are the new n-gate posts coming out?
- MisterTea 5y ago
  I am not the n-gate maintainer, just someone who enjoys the humor. Last I heard the maintainer has been busy and unable to dedicate enough time. They hang out in in #cat-v on oftc.net.
- anaganisk 5y ago
  N-gate has no love for pis either. The article would’ve been like, Apples and Pis fight over whose shitty processor paved the way for more underpowered devices , while intel continues war against its users.
dang 5y ago
Please don't post in the flamewar style. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

GhettoComputers 5y ago

>Raspberry Pi, BeagleBone and various arm based embedded systems played a much higher role in getting most linux, BSD tools working under arm. I don't disagree, but going mainstream is different. >It’s not apple M1 that’s making this migration possible, its just the cherry on top of a cake. M1 would not exist without the Apple's App store all based on ARM.

BizarroLand 5y ago

It makes sense, we build for what we play with. You gotta give us the nails if you want to sell a hammer.

llukas 5y ago

M1 brings large customer base paying for stuff. Raspberry Pi doesn't have that big of a $$$ splash.

wooger 5y ago
Ha, large customer base of very expensive laptops, that's actually tiny compared to the customer base of arm servers, Rpis. None of the paid software with a tiny userbase you're thinking of is relevant to the server market, the point is that it's free and open.
MayeulC 5y ago
Are you going to run Apple software on your servers? Most servers leverage the Linux ecosystem, most of which is open-source and maintained by developers who do not have big $$$. M1 probably enables the same transition for customer-oriented, proprietary apps. But it has little to do with cloud computing, except proving that performance and ARM are not mutually exclusive, thus providing more acceptance.
- thecompilr 5y ago
  Huh? I am developing natively in macOS for a Linux server using Rust. Everything just runs fine on both. Unless I need to go really low into syscalls I have no reason to be writing and testing my code on Linux.
  - the_mitsuhiko 5y ago
    You’re supporting that point though. A big initial move for ARM in rust was raspberry pi.
    - thecompilr 5y ago
      The post I replied to said M1 only gonna help user applications, not servers, I claim that it helps both.
- jbverschoor 5y ago

flyinglizard 5y ago

This started long before Pi. StrongARM existed 20 years ago and the new generation of application processors which pushed forward ARM started around 2005 (Atmel, TI, Freescale, Qualcomm and others) with the ARM9 core. Pi entered a mature ecosystem, it just made it a bit more consumer/newbie facing but the system level foundations were all there. Ironically the Pi isn’t even particularly well supported in terms of drivers compared to commercial offerings.

alpanka 5y ago
No, but pi is what gave us the software! While strongarm and others have been around longer, none had any real mass market hold. With Pi & co, you can build a (slow) server with $35. You can build a k8 cluster with $150. That's why we have cross platform packages for almost anything server related.
- flyinglizard 5y ago
  You could do just that before. Cross compiling for ARM is an ancient, dark craft. All that changed for the better (and admittedly much better for the hobbyists) is getting prebuilt binaries in the major distributions.
  - alpanka 5y ago
    Before pi & co, cross compiling was a black art. You often needed to build your own toolchain and the target environment were often not standardized either so you would need different compilers for each target. Fast forward to today, you can apt-get cross-compilers and build tools.
    - Nursie 5y ago
      While it was a hassle, you could use pre-built cross compilers on debian before the Pi came along, as I was in 2010/11. Multi-arch helped a lot when it was introduced too.
    - GhettoComputers 5y ago

Nursie 5y ago

It's probably because linux on arm has been around longer than the Pi, but a lot of people seem to hold this idea it was pioneering. It was pioneering in how low-cost and mass market it was at launch, but before the Pi there was plug computing, largely based around Marvell Kirkwood processors. There were also a variety of hackable NAS devices, I used some with Orion5x CPUS in. Then before plug computing there was the linksys NSLU2 with its Intel Xscale IXP chip, and all the hackable linksys routers going back to 2002, and that's just some of the stuff I've played with over the years. Before that I imagine there were previous generations of linux ARM support. The Pi and other hobby boards are really great, don't get me wrong, but there's a tendency to credit them with a bit too much.

mschuster91 5y ago
> Then before plug computing there was the linksys NSLU2 with its Intel Xscale IXP chip Whoa, haven't heard that one in a looong time. Still have mine sitting in a storage closet, I think...
- Nursie 5y ago
  They were great little machines! I used to run my own mail server on one and use another as a media server. I even did a small hardware mod and soldered a wifi card to one of the internal USB headers on one of them. Much fun! I don't imagine the processing power stands up to modern devices though :)
selfhoster11 5y ago
Plug computing and Linksys routers weren't cheap, and the Pi was. That's the entire difference when your target audience is kids with a couple of dollars worth of allowance or broke college kids.
- bityard 5y ago
  > Plug computing and Linksys routers weren't cheap, and the Pi was. For their time (20 years ago), they certainly were cheap. $100 or so for a small power efficient box that could run almost a whole Linux distribution was an amazing bargain. Before that, you needed a good-sized desktop or server to do anything involving a Unix-like OS, or paid dearly for the convenience of a laptop. And it wasn't much before that, that running Unix on any microcomputer was just a dream. It's hard to comprend just how amazingly affordable computing has become in such a short amount of time.

kuschku 5y ago

I can confirm, the RPi is the only reason I provide armhf and aarch64 builds of all my projects. It really helped accelerate the long tail.

alias_neo 5y ago
Same, I only added ARM Docker images for my stuff because I'm an avid Pi user.