5 ms·

I really don't understand how overbookings are legal. Does every contract just have some "we can cancel for no reason" clause?

by rtpg 5y ago

jjk166 5y ago
Cars break down, people don't return their cars in time, some of the staff processing cars call out sick, there's a wide variety of reasons your inventory day of might be less than predicted. Either you need to have a lot of extra vehicles sitting idle to make up the deficit or you need to screw over your customers, and car rentals are too low margin for the former to be a viable option.
simplestats 5y ago
The flip side is you can choose to extend your rental without giving them any advance notice. And you can cancel your reservation without penalty (at least before these new pay-in-advance deals). Hence they are never quite certiain they will have cars. I have had to wait around for someone to return a car before I could get my rental a few times before. Also I believe one of them (Hertz or maybe Enterprise) told me if I did the pay-in-advance deal they would guarantee a car was there because they'd bring one in from the airport if needed. Some locations have very few cars and can be hit-or-miss.
FireBeyond 5y ago
Pretty much. Last time I rented from Hertz, with a corporate card, they wanted to run an "identity verification" on me, which I assume was basically some kind of credit pull. They then told me that because the details from that didn't match the card (billing address, ZIP, etc., I guess), they could not rent to me. "When can I see a refund on my card?" I asked, as I pulled up Uber to go somewhere else (because I was not about to use my personal card, on principle with their behavior). "Sorry, prepaid reservations are nonrefundable". Uhh, no. You're not going to accept a reservation from me using a credit card, and then decide that my photo ID matching that credit card is insufficient, deny me a rental, and deny me a refund. That got sorted out, but took more than one call to Corporate.
- raverbashing 5y ago
  > but took more than one call to Corporate Or one call to your CC chargeback department, which would bite them more
  - JohnWhigham 5y ago
    CC companies rarely actually charge it back from the offending business though, they just reimburse you. It's largely a cost of doing business.
  - tdeck 5y ago
    During the early pandemic Singapore Airlines canceled my flight and gave me a flight credit. I went in circles with them and Orbitz saying I wanted my money back, to no avail. So I filed a chargeback with Capital One. The airline responded to the dispute saying the ticket I bought was non-refundable. I replied pointing out that means it's not refundable if I cancel, not that the airline can refuse service I paid for and not refund me. I also attached a recent notice from the DoT saying that airlines must refund customers in my situation, and that the specific practice in question was illegal. Capital One sided with the airline and closed my case. Guess you can't depend on chargebacks like I thought you could.
    - mnw21cam 5y ago
      That's what the small claims court is for.
      - hellbannedguy 5y ago
        Don't they cover themselfs with mandatory arbitration contracts?
    - CPLX 5y ago
      > Capital One sided with the airline and closed my case. Guess you can't depend on chargebacks like I thought you could. Yes people tend to have a slightly delusional view of how effective chargebacks can be based on limited experiences. If you're fighting with a small merchant like a local store or a non famous online merchant you're going to win basically every time. If you're fighting with a rental car company, an airline, a hotel chain, a household name company, or similar, it's an entirely different story. The interaction has much more to do with who's more valuable to the card issuer than who's right.
rich_sasha 5y ago
It’s probably the flip side to allowing late no-fee cancellations. If it’s easy to book then not turn up, people will. Then if you know a significant percentage on average doesn’t turn up, it would be lost profit to not overbook. Fully paid non-refundable services should, I agree, very conservative in overbooking.

I really don't understand how overbookings are legal. Does every contract just have some "we can cancel for no reason" clause?

by rtpg 5y ago

I really don't understand how overbookings are legal. Does every contract just have some "we can cancel for no reason" clause?

jjk166 5y ago

Cars break down, people don't return their cars in time, some of the staff processing cars call out sick, there's a wide variety of reasons your inventory day of might be less than predicted. Either you need to have a lot of extra vehicles sitting idle to make up the deficit or you need to screw over your customers, and car rentals are too low margin for the former to be a viable option.

simplestats 5y ago

The flip side is you can choose to extend your rental without giving them any advance notice. And you can cancel your reservation without penalty (at least before these new pay-in-advance deals). Hence they are never quite certiain they will have cars. I have had to wait around for someone to return a car before I could get my rental a few times before. Also I believe one of them (Hertz or maybe Enterprise) told me if I did the pay-in-advance deal they would guarantee a car was there because they'd bring one in from the airport if needed. Some locations have very few cars and can be hit-or-miss.

FireBeyond 5y ago

Pretty much. Last time I rented from Hertz, with a corporate card, they wanted to run an "identity verification" on me, which I assume was basically some kind of credit pull. They then told me that because the details from that didn't match the card (billing address, ZIP, etc., I guess), they could not rent to me. "When can I see a refund on my card?" I asked, as I pulled up Uber to go somewhere else (because I was not about to use my personal card, on principle with their behavior). "Sorry, prepaid reservations are nonrefundable". Uhh, no. You're not going to accept a reservation from me using a credit card, and then decide that my photo ID matching that credit card is insufficient, deny me a rental, and deny me a refund. That got sorted out, but took more than one call to Corporate.

raverbashing 5y ago
> but took more than one call to Corporate Or one call to your CC chargeback department, which would bite them more
- JohnWhigham 5y ago
  CC companies rarely actually charge it back from the offending business though, they just reimburse you. It's largely a cost of doing business.
- tdeck 5y ago
  During the early pandemic Singapore Airlines canceled my flight and gave me a flight credit. I went in circles with them and Orbitz saying I wanted my money back, to no avail. So I filed a chargeback with Capital One. The airline responded to the dispute saying the ticket I bought was non-refundable. I replied pointing out that means it's not refundable if I cancel, not that the airline can refuse service I paid for and not refund me. I also attached a recent notice from the DoT saying that airlines must refund customers in my situation, and that the specific practice in question was illegal. Capital One sided with the airline and closed my case. Guess you can't depend on chargebacks like I thought you could.
  - mnw21cam 5y ago
    That's what the small claims court is for.
    - hellbannedguy 5y ago
      Don't they cover themselfs with mandatory arbitration contracts?
  - CPLX 5y ago
    > Capital One sided with the airline and closed my case. Guess you can't depend on chargebacks like I thought you could. Yes people tend to have a slightly delusional view of how effective chargebacks can be based on limited experiences. If you're fighting with a small merchant like a local store or a non famous online merchant you're going to win basically every time. If you're fighting with a rental car company, an airline, a hotel chain, a household name company, or similar, it's an entirely different story. The interaction has much more to do with who's more valuable to the card issuer than who's right.

rich_sasha 5y ago

It’s probably the flip side to allowing late no-fee cancellations. If it’s easy to book then not turn up, people will. Then if you know a significant percentage on average doesn’t turn up, it would be lost profit to not overbook. Fully paid non-refundable services should, I agree, very conservative in overbooking.