4 ms·

> It's not hugely difficult to earn six figures in the US if you're committed, work hard, and pick a good field. That's if you also had a healthy learning envi

> It's not hugely difficult to earn six figures in the US if you're committed, work hard, and pick a good field. That's if you also had a healthy learning environment at school and home, can afford college, and have a healthy early development to be able to grow up into an sufficiently smart child. A lot of people in the bottom 20% don't have those initial conditions.

anonfornoreason 5y ago
or go into one of the many trades that pay north of $100k with no college education and just provided on the job training. trades right now that are struggling to find applicants.
- analog31 5y ago
  The trades are oversold in the US. Many of them are physically demanding if not dangerous. Many of them are dominated by smaller businesses that are practically exempt from labor law enforcement. Many are strongly dependent on the housing cycle. Since many of those businesses are also family-owned, a person without the right connections can face an uphill battle getting a decent job. I believe that the opioid epidemic started out as a pain epidemic, with a population of people suffering chronic pain that they acquired from their jobs. I've hired people to work at my house, and the ones who are my age tend to be hobbling and broken. I'd be more enthusiastic about the trades if I lived in a country with better unions, labor laws, health care, and safety net. Now, some of the better trades are medicine and nursing related. Those tend to be indoors, in a better regulated workplace. Or computer programming.
  - anonfornoreason 5y ago
    you are moving the goalpost here. good luck finding a job paying well that's not a trade or a technical job requiring a college degree. grew up blue collar, still spend plenty of time with blue collar folks. just like there are fat unhealthy desk workers, there are beaten up tradesmen who didn't take care of their bodies. there are also healthy examples of both. finally, these are required jobs that make our society function. hard to say they are oversold while most of the people on this forum make the proverbial fourteenth attempt at Uber for dogwalking. myself included.
    - rpmisms 5y ago
      Out of curiosity, would you consider programming a trade? I'm a degreeless developer, and I definitely treat my work like trade work.
      - anonfornoreason 5y ago
        by the colloquial definition, no. "the trades" usually mean plumber, electrician, sheet metal worker, welder, home construction, etc. skilled labor with an apprenticeship program, often union backed. I would consider any person engaged in skilled work that requires learning or training to be a tradesman, so yes a programmer fits in my opinion.
      - analog31 5y ago
        Ultimately, "trade" is defined by social custom. Another term is "profession." It probably makes more sense to look at how different occupations are trained. Some training is defined by licensure requirements, possibly union standards, and so forth. The duration of training varies by occupation, e.g., medicine takes longer than truck driving. Some training occurs in a college setting, such as medicine and nursing. Some is provided by local or regional trade schools, or by the military. An interesting thing about programming is that we still haven't reached a consensus on what kind of training is needed. So we can say it's a trade, profession, or whatever, but that doesn't tell us anything useful about it.
rpmisms 5y ago
Unschooled, no college, committed parents. All I needed.
- jmeister 5y ago
  The last part is priceless. From a great article I read recently: “A solid, two-parent home is critical for a child’s future. There is simply no shortcut." “ Poverty, even extreme poverty, is surmountable. What is nearly impossible to overcome is the instability—the psychological havoc—created by broken homes. Especially for boys.” https://twitter.com/robkhenderson/status/1456287662243991560 https://twitter.com/robkhenderson/status/1456287662243991560
  - rpmisms 5y ago
    I agree with this strongly, but saying this publicly is taboo. Implying that children need a nuclear family is widely considered ignorant at best, bigoted at worst.
refurb 5y ago
Sure, but that situation is not unique to America. Go to any country in the world and if you have a bad upbringing, how far you go is likely stunted.

anonfornoreason 5y ago

or go into one of the many trades that pay north of $100k with no college education and just provided on the job training. trades right now that are struggling to find applicants.

analog31 5y ago
The trades are oversold in the US. Many of them are physically demanding if not dangerous. Many of them are dominated by smaller businesses that are practically exempt from labor law enforcement. Many are strongly dependent on the housing cycle. Since many of those businesses are also family-owned, a person without the right connections can face an uphill battle getting a decent job. I believe that the opioid epidemic started out as a pain epidemic, with a population of people suffering chronic pain that they acquired from their jobs. I've hired people to work at my house, and the ones who are my age tend to be hobbling and broken. I'd be more enthusiastic about the trades if I lived in a country with better unions, labor laws, health care, and safety net. Now, some of the better trades are medicine and nursing related. Those tend to be indoors, in a better regulated workplace. Or computer programming.
- anonfornoreason 5y ago
  you are moving the goalpost here. good luck finding a job paying well that's not a trade or a technical job requiring a college degree. grew up blue collar, still spend plenty of time with blue collar folks. just like there are fat unhealthy desk workers, there are beaten up tradesmen who didn't take care of their bodies. there are also healthy examples of both. finally, these are required jobs that make our society function. hard to say they are oversold while most of the people on this forum make the proverbial fourteenth attempt at Uber for dogwalking. myself included.
  - rpmisms 5y ago
    Out of curiosity, would you consider programming a trade? I'm a degreeless developer, and I definitely treat my work like trade work.
    - anonfornoreason 5y ago
      by the colloquial definition, no. "the trades" usually mean plumber, electrician, sheet metal worker, welder, home construction, etc. skilled labor with an apprenticeship program, often union backed. I would consider any person engaged in skilled work that requires learning or training to be a tradesman, so yes a programmer fits in my opinion.
    - analog31 5y ago
      Ultimately, "trade" is defined by social custom. Another term is "profession." It probably makes more sense to look at how different occupations are trained. Some training is defined by licensure requirements, possibly union standards, and so forth. The duration of training varies by occupation, e.g., medicine takes longer than truck driving. Some training occurs in a college setting, such as medicine and nursing. Some is provided by local or regional trade schools, or by the military. An interesting thing about programming is that we still haven't reached a consensus on what kind of training is needed. So we can say it's a trade, profession, or whatever, but that doesn't tell us anything useful about it.

rpmisms 5y ago

Unschooled, no college, committed parents. All I needed.

jmeister 5y ago
The last part is priceless. From a great article I read recently: “A solid, two-parent home is critical for a child’s future. There is simply no shortcut." “ Poverty, even extreme poverty, is surmountable. What is nearly impossible to overcome is the instability—the psychological havoc—created by broken homes. Especially for boys.” https://twitter.com/robkhenderson/status/1456287662243991560 https://twitter.com/robkhenderson/status/1456287662243991560
- rpmisms 5y ago
  I agree with this strongly, but saying this publicly is taboo. Implying that children need a nuclear family is widely considered ignorant at best, bigoted at worst.

refurb 5y ago

Sure, but that situation is not unique to America. Go to any country in the world and if you have a bad upbringing, how far you go is likely stunted.