4 ms·

Are most aspects of life better than in 2015 right now?

bart_spoon 5y ago
5 years seems like far too small of a window to accurately assess this. Was life better in 2010 than 2005? How about 1977 vs 1972? Or 1803 and 1798? A much longer time frame will be required to determine if life is improving over time for people or not. Possibly on the scale of generations.
pphysch 5y ago
In some countries
awb 5y ago
Compared to 2015? Yeah our technology is better, our shared knowledge is increasing, population is increasing, etc. In a collapse, I’d expect to see near 0 investment in new technology with more energy going into basic survival and trying to protect a declining population. If you think we’re in a setback, decline, etc., maybe, but when I think collapse, I think a “Guns, Germs & Steel” / Easter Island type event.
- TrispusAttucks 5y ago
  Collapse is a process. Not an event.
  - awb 5y ago
    Sure, but you can recover from a decline, you can’t recover from a collapse. From Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societal_collapse https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societal_collapse Here’s the definition: > the loss of cultural identity and of socioeconomic complexity, the downfall of government, and the rise of violence And it isn’t usually a slow process: > Societal collapse is generally quick So for Western civilization or the US to truly collapse it means a complete loss of cultural identity, destruction of the economy, no government and tons of violence. Even war torn countries rarely collapse because even if the government is removed, violence spikes and the economy stops working the people can still maintain a sense of common shared culture and identity and avoid collapse. I guess it becomes more of a rebirth or evolution at that point. I think a lot of people see 1 sign of collapse and think it’s a collapse, but it’s actually just a decline or an oscillation.
    - TrispusAttucks 5y ago
      Point taken. Collapse includes decline but decline doesn't necessarily lead to collapse. That said, collapse is really just decline that happened too fast. Decline appears to be caused by a handful of factors. In the event that too many factors are in play at once collapse becomes inevitable. You could say the the US / Western civilization is the rebirth of the Roman Empire (Rome 2.0). If you look at the historical accounting of the [1] Roman collapse it is frighteningly similar to the issues US is facing at the moment. However, it is possible that societies are doomed to the 4 stages of [2] Strauss-Howe generational theory of cyclical repetitions with an inability to ever break free of it. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societal_collapse#Demographic_dynamics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societal_collapse#Demographi... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss%E2%80%93Howe_generational_theory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss%E2%80%93Howe_generat...

5 years seems like far too small of a window to accurately assess this. Was life better in 2010 than 2005? How about 1977 vs 1972? Or 1803 and 1798? A much longer time frame will be required to determine if life is improving over time for people or not. Possibly on the scale of generations.

pphysch 5y ago

In some countries

awb 5y ago

Compared to 2015? Yeah our technology is better, our shared knowledge is increasing, population is increasing, etc. In a collapse, I’d expect to see near 0 investment in new technology with more energy going into basic survival and trying to protect a declining population. If you think we’re in a setback, decline, etc., maybe, but when I think collapse, I think a “Guns, Germs & Steel” / Easter Island type event.

TrispusAttucks 5y ago
Collapse is a process. Not an event.
- awb 5y ago
  Sure, but you can recover from a decline, you can’t recover from a collapse. From Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societal_collapse https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societal_collapse Here’s the definition: > the loss of cultural identity and of socioeconomic complexity, the downfall of government, and the rise of violence And it isn’t usually a slow process: > Societal collapse is generally quick So for Western civilization or the US to truly collapse it means a complete loss of cultural identity, destruction of the economy, no government and tons of violence. Even war torn countries rarely collapse because even if the government is removed, violence spikes and the economy stops working the people can still maintain a sense of common shared culture and identity and avoid collapse. I guess it becomes more of a rebirth or evolution at that point. I think a lot of people see 1 sign of collapse and think it’s a collapse, but it’s actually just a decline or an oscillation.
  - TrispusAttucks 5y ago
    Point taken. Collapse includes decline but decline doesn't necessarily lead to collapse. That said, collapse is really just decline that happened too fast. Decline appears to be caused by a handful of factors. In the event that too many factors are in play at once collapse becomes inevitable. You could say the the US / Western civilization is the rebirth of the Roman Empire (Rome 2.0). If you look at the historical accounting of the [1] Roman collapse it is frighteningly similar to the issues US is facing at the moment. However, it is possible that societies are doomed to the 4 stages of [2] Strauss-Howe generational theory of cyclical repetitions with an inability to ever break free of it. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societal_collapse#Demographic_dynamics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societal_collapse#Demographi... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss%E2%80%93Howe_generational_theory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss%E2%80%93Howe_generat...