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Is it not enough to just say that we should pay people market rates? If the true cost of a firefighter in California is indeed 190k then thats what they should

by czhu12 5y ago

Is it not enough to just say that we should pay people market rates? If the true cost of a firefighter in California is indeed 190k then thats what they should be paid. If its lower then they are overpaid and if its higher than they are underpaid. This is not to say that firefighters are not essential workers, of course they are. We can make an argument that every firefighter should be paid 500k or 1 million. Heck, they save lives, so why not 10 million? Ultimately, the vast majority of people not in public sector work doesn't get to make these kinds of arguments, and are simply forced to take market rates.

lupire 5y ago
CA uses nearly unpaid prison labor for firefighting, making the huge salary for paid firefighters even stranger.
kelseyfrog 5y ago
Kind of? Do you think the market for firefighters is a monopsony and if so, how does that shape the firefighter labor market?
- czhu12 5y ago
  Maybe so, but this is always going to be a problem with unionized government work. We can try to approximate a free market by reducing the power of public-sector unions. Ultimately it has to come down to tax payers to hold government accountable. More transparency is a step in that direction.
sudosysgen 5y ago
These markets are monopsonies. The market rate is much lower than the actual value these jobs are worth. Even so, we do not have enough firefighters and teachers. This is a price signal that the current compensation is insufficient.
- austhrow743 5y ago
  Not enough firefighters in that there are open positions and no one is interested? Or open positions only for the already trained/experienced? If it’s the latter then that’s an argument that compensation is too high if anything. It should be rebalanced such that some of it is used for training. If the former then that’s just alien to me. Here in Australia firefighting is a prestigious job with a lot of competition. People volunteer to do it for free or do it part time while working another primary job, for years, in the hopes of being able to become a full time firey.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    In California, people aren't volunteering enough, they have to resort to prisoners. As far as teachers at least, there are open positions, that require training of course, hence the need for a higher salary.

by czhu12 5y ago

lupire 5y ago

CA uses nearly unpaid prison labor for firefighting, making the huge salary for paid firefighters even stranger.

kelseyfrog 5y ago

Kind of? Do you think the market for firefighters is a monopsony and if so, how does that shape the firefighter labor market?

czhu12 5y ago
Maybe so, but this is always going to be a problem with unionized government work. We can try to approximate a free market by reducing the power of public-sector unions. Ultimately it has to come down to tax payers to hold government accountable. More transparency is a step in that direction.

sudosysgen 5y ago

These markets are monopsonies. The market rate is much lower than the actual value these jobs are worth. Even so, we do not have enough firefighters and teachers. This is a price signal that the current compensation is insufficient.

austhrow743 5y ago
Not enough firefighters in that there are open positions and no one is interested? Or open positions only for the already trained/experienced? If it’s the latter then that’s an argument that compensation is too high if anything. It should be rebalanced such that some of it is used for training. If the former then that’s just alien to me. Here in Australia firefighting is a prestigious job with a lot of competition. People volunteer to do it for free or do it part time while working another primary job, for years, in the hopes of being able to become a full time firey.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  In California, people aren't volunteering enough, they have to resort to prisoners. As far as teachers at least, there are open positions, that require training of course, hence the need for a higher salary.