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> I actually have no problem with criminalizing cheating to some extent If it is criminal to cheat it is not a game anymore. On the other hand I would welcome

> I actually have no problem with criminalizing cheating to some extent If it is criminal to cheat it is not a game anymore. On the other hand I would welcome hazard game regulations for all games with lottery ticket like products for sale, like "loot boxes".

dogma1138 5y ago
I’m pretty sure it’s already criminal to use “hacks” to cheat. Abuse of game mechanics shouldn’t fall under that, tho I have no issue with banning people who do it knowingly and repeatedly after it’s been made clear it’s not an intended mechanic. We do (try) prevent cheating in sports and other games and ban players and in fact whole countries for cheating. Try cheating in a casino for example, card counting may get you thrown out, hacking a slot machine would land you in jail. Loot boxes are another issue they should be regulated as gambling I have no issue with thst.
- Teever 5y ago
  I'm okay with criminal laws that punish people for cheating in games that have cash prizes but I really don't want to see that applied to everyday games. Let's so for old times sake I organize a lanparty with my friends from HS and during this event someone decides to turn on no clip to surprise their friends. Should this be criminal?
  - tylerhou 5y ago
    It depends on the harm done. Obviously if you’re playing with your friends there is likely no harm done. If you’re wasting 50+ other people’s time (e.g. FPS battle arenas) then you might want a harsher punishment. Of course there are degrees; I don’t think people should be thrown in jail for cheating in casual matches/pubs. But then if you cheat in a tournament where there are hundreds of thousands of $$$ at stake, jail time might be appropriate.
    - rightbyte 5y ago
      > But then if you cheat in a tournament where there are hundreds of thousands of $$$ at stake, jail time might be appropriate. Please no. I mean athletes are not thrown in jail for doping in most places. If cheating are to be illegal, it needs gambling regulation and supervision, even if just for pros. And I don't think that would end well.
      - tylerhou 5y ago
        https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/2015_Match-Fixing_Scandal#Sentencing https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/2015_Match-Fixing_Scandal#...
  - dogma1138 5y ago
    If you paid to attend an event and someone was disrupting it are you happy with the venue calling the police to come and deal with them so the event can resume?
- nix23 5y ago
  >I’m pretty sure it’s already criminal to use “hacks” to cheat Server-side yes...client-side NO. You can do with you computer and the software running on it ~whatever you want...and you can throw TOS is the bin...TOS are not laws, more like unsigned contracts.
tentacleuno 5y ago
> On the other hand I would welcome hazard game regulations for all games with lottery ticket like products for sale, like "loot boxes". ...especially with all the YouTube advertising. I see advertisements for these (what is essentially) gambling games quite frequently on YouTube. "One free spin if you use code XXXXX, guys! Go download it now!" type of stuff. They obviously get a kickback from these ads. The audience for these types of channels are mostly going to be young / teenage boys. They know exactly what they're doing, and personally I find it despicable and harrowing that YouTube entertain this.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  Try Googling "gachapon" to get an idea of how bad the epidemic is globally. These games have existed for a good while in Japan and China, and their sole purpose is to extract value out of people with obvious impulse problems (in both the real-life and digital incarnations). It's really just the abuse of capitalism driven to it's extremes; game companies will go "whale hunting" to try and create situations where limited-time assets can only be acquired through insane spending, and repeat it until their users either quit or run out of money. Seeing all this talk of incorporating Web3 into everything only makes me afraid of our gacha-ized future.
Barrin92 5y ago
>If it is criminal to cheat it is not a game anymore. It never has been a game in the sense you're implying here, that's to say as an informal arrangement, you're literally signing a TOS for a piece of software you're going to use abiding by some rules, it just happens to be a 'videogame'. And I don't just mean it it in a pedantic sense, but a lot of these games involve money, either by paying for the game or by paying for content, not just gambling, and if someone ruins a product you paid for that's pretty bad.
- rightbyte 5y ago
  But it is in no way worse to cheat in eg. Fortnite than in a board game like Monopoly. Also, the TOS is not legally binding in a contract sense, especially since minors are "literally signing" it, which they have no power to do.
  - Barrin92 5y ago
    I'm not sure concerning the details in regards to minors, but terms of service are legally binding contracts, although enforcement depends on the details of any given contract. Terms of service lawsuits absolutely do exist, both by companies as well as by customers. You may remember the George Hotz / Sony lawsuit over jailbreaking the playstation. https://www.americanbar.org/groups/business_law/safeselling/terms/ https://www.americanbar.org/groups/business_law/safeselling/...
  - Volundr 5y ago
    > But it is in no way worse to cheat in eg. Fortnite than in a board game like Monopoly. If you cheat in Monopoly, I can simply not play with you anymore. This is not true of Fortnite. You also have the potential to impact a much higher number of people cheating in Fortnite.
MomoXenosaga 5y ago
I often cheat, modify and use other people's save game file in single player games. Technically this is already against the ToS. Of course videogames aren't just a game anymore, they are a billion dollar entertainment industry.
Volundr 5y ago
> If it is criminal to cheat it is not a game anymore. So Poker, Blackjack, etc aren't games now? There are plenty of circumstances where it'd be illegal to cheat in games.

dogma1138 5y ago

I’m pretty sure it’s already criminal to use “hacks” to cheat. Abuse of game mechanics shouldn’t fall under that, tho I have no issue with banning people who do it knowingly and repeatedly after it’s been made clear it’s not an intended mechanic. We do (try) prevent cheating in sports and other games and ban players and in fact whole countries for cheating. Try cheating in a casino for example, card counting may get you thrown out, hacking a slot machine would land you in jail. Loot boxes are another issue they should be regulated as gambling I have no issue with thst.

Teever 5y ago
I'm okay with criminal laws that punish people for cheating in games that have cash prizes but I really don't want to see that applied to everyday games. Let's so for old times sake I organize a lanparty with my friends from HS and during this event someone decides to turn on no clip to surprise their friends. Should this be criminal?
- tylerhou 5y ago
  It depends on the harm done. Obviously if you’re playing with your friends there is likely no harm done. If you’re wasting 50+ other people’s time (e.g. FPS battle arenas) then you might want a harsher punishment. Of course there are degrees; I don’t think people should be thrown in jail for cheating in casual matches/pubs. But then if you cheat in a tournament where there are hundreds of thousands of $$$ at stake, jail time might be appropriate.
  - rightbyte 5y ago
    > But then if you cheat in a tournament where there are hundreds of thousands of $$$ at stake, jail time might be appropriate. Please no. I mean athletes are not thrown in jail for doping in most places. If cheating are to be illegal, it needs gambling regulation and supervision, even if just for pros. And I don't think that would end well.
    - tylerhou 5y ago
      https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/2015_Match-Fixing_Scandal#Sentencing https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/2015_Match-Fixing_Scandal#...
- dogma1138 5y ago
  If you paid to attend an event and someone was disrupting it are you happy with the venue calling the police to come and deal with them so the event can resume?
nix23 5y ago
>I’m pretty sure it’s already criminal to use “hacks” to cheat Server-side yes...client-side NO. You can do with you computer and the software running on it ~whatever you want...and you can throw TOS is the bin...TOS are not laws, more like unsigned contracts.

tentacleuno 5y ago

> On the other hand I would welcome hazard game regulations for all games with lottery ticket like products for sale, like "loot boxes". ...especially with all the YouTube advertising. I see advertisements for these (what is essentially) gambling games quite frequently on YouTube. "One free spin if you use code XXXXX, guys! Go download it now!" type of stuff. They obviously get a kickback from these ads. The audience for these types of channels are mostly going to be young / teenage boys. They know exactly what they're doing, and personally I find it despicable and harrowing that YouTube entertain this.

smoldesu 5y ago
Try Googling "gachapon" to get an idea of how bad the epidemic is globally. These games have existed for a good while in Japan and China, and their sole purpose is to extract value out of people with obvious impulse problems (in both the real-life and digital incarnations). It's really just the abuse of capitalism driven to it's extremes; game companies will go "whale hunting" to try and create situations where limited-time assets can only be acquired through insane spending, and repeat it until their users either quit or run out of money. Seeing all this talk of incorporating Web3 into everything only makes me afraid of our gacha-ized future.

Barrin92 5y ago

>If it is criminal to cheat it is not a game anymore. It never has been a game in the sense you're implying here, that's to say as an informal arrangement, you're literally signing a TOS for a piece of software you're going to use abiding by some rules, it just happens to be a 'videogame'. And I don't just mean it it in a pedantic sense, but a lot of these games involve money, either by paying for the game or by paying for content, not just gambling, and if someone ruins a product you paid for that's pretty bad.

rightbyte 5y ago
But it is in no way worse to cheat in eg. Fortnite than in a board game like Monopoly. Also, the TOS is not legally binding in a contract sense, especially since minors are "literally signing" it, which they have no power to do.
- Barrin92 5y ago
  I'm not sure concerning the details in regards to minors, but terms of service are legally binding contracts, although enforcement depends on the details of any given contract. Terms of service lawsuits absolutely do exist, both by companies as well as by customers. You may remember the George Hotz / Sony lawsuit over jailbreaking the playstation. https://www.americanbar.org/groups/business_law/safeselling/terms/ https://www.americanbar.org/groups/business_law/safeselling/...
- Volundr 5y ago
  > But it is in no way worse to cheat in eg. Fortnite than in a board game like Monopoly. If you cheat in Monopoly, I can simply not play with you anymore. This is not true of Fortnite. You also have the potential to impact a much higher number of people cheating in Fortnite.

MomoXenosaga 5y ago

I often cheat, modify and use other people's save game file in single player games. Technically this is already against the ToS. Of course videogames aren't just a game anymore, they are a billion dollar entertainment industry.

Volundr 5y ago

> If it is criminal to cheat it is not a game anymore. So Poker, Blackjack, etc aren't games now? There are plenty of circumstances where it'd be illegal to cheat in games.