5 ms·

> This is really the endgame of cheating and anti cheat wars. I'm of the opinion the eventual endgame is game streaming like Google Stadia (though I don't thin

> This is really the endgame of cheating and anti cheat wars. I'm of the opinion the eventual endgame is game streaming like Google Stadia (though I don't think Google Stadia itself is the final answer). Can't compromise a local client if there is no local client. > I wonder if they will eventually offer a unprotected server to people who refuse to install the root kits or not. Absolutely not, for one simple reason: that segment of their audience is insignificant to the bottom line.

genocidicbunny 5y ago
Camera pointed at screen with some image recognition and a bit of code to synthesize controller/kbm input. No need for compromising any sort of local client. Wouldn't be terribly hard to make a little rpi-based solution to sell. As long as there's money to be made, cheating will continue. In fact, making it harder to cheat in games can make it more lucrative to develop cheats for them.
- eertami 5y ago
  > In fact, making it harder to cheat in games can make it more lucrative to develop cheats for them. Sure, but I don't see how that's a bad thing. More lucrative means higher prices means fewer cheaters can afford it.
digitallyfree 5y ago
There is still the possibility of computer vision based cheats, but a streamed game would pretty much make current cheats impossible. Even with a hardened OS specifically for running games (I think this has been proposed before) or a locked-down game console it is still possible, albeit difficult, for someone to exploit it.
- justinlloyd 5y ago
  Have built computer vision based bots for Diablo III, World of Warcraft, Bookworm (make words from letters), a real-life Scrabble solver on a phone, a real-world jigsaw puzzle solver on a phone, various online poker games, a proctored online test and a match 3 game on an iphone. Computer vision cheating is surprisingly easy and just getting easier.
  - digitallyfree 5y ago
    A computer vision system is still disadvantaged in that it can only see what the player can see, and no more than that. For example a wallhack won't work well as the cheat simply can't get the locations of all the enemies, and can only highlight them when they actually appear on screen. Also most of the games you listed above are relatively simple to work with both in terms of rules and graphics - it would be much harder to have a functional bot for the many variables involved in a 3D FPS game with fog, bullet drop, friendly fire, and so on.
- slaymaker1907 5y ago
  That is definitely the endgame for cheating. I know in WoW, they explicitly ban hardware input broadcasting for multiboxers yet actually detecting that can be quite difficult. At the end of the day, we are trying to find technological solutions for social problems. What I think would really help would be to decrease the ease of duplicate account creation for services which care about cheating. Without that capability, punishing cheaters socially (i.e. bans) is never going to be particularly effective. I think social solutions can work because you don't need to stop 100% of cheaters like some people seem to believe. All you need to do is prevent enough cheating that people believe the game is honest overall. Locks only make sure honest people stay honest, but that actually works pretty well since most people are honest.
thatguy0900 5y ago
Screen reading cheats have existed for a long time, I remember using this in like middle school https://www.robotzindisguise.com/ https://www.robotzindisguise.com/

genocidicbunny 5y ago

Camera pointed at screen with some image recognition and a bit of code to synthesize controller/kbm input. No need for compromising any sort of local client. Wouldn't be terribly hard to make a little rpi-based solution to sell. As long as there's money to be made, cheating will continue. In fact, making it harder to cheat in games can make it more lucrative to develop cheats for them.

eertami 5y ago
> In fact, making it harder to cheat in games can make it more lucrative to develop cheats for them. Sure, but I don't see how that's a bad thing. More lucrative means higher prices means fewer cheaters can afford it.

digitallyfree 5y ago

There is still the possibility of computer vision based cheats, but a streamed game would pretty much make current cheats impossible. Even with a hardened OS specifically for running games (I think this has been proposed before) or a locked-down game console it is still possible, albeit difficult, for someone to exploit it.

justinlloyd 5y ago
Have built computer vision based bots for Diablo III, World of Warcraft, Bookworm (make words from letters), a real-life Scrabble solver on a phone, a real-world jigsaw puzzle solver on a phone, various online poker games, a proctored online test and a match 3 game on an iphone. Computer vision cheating is surprisingly easy and just getting easier.
- digitallyfree 5y ago
  A computer vision system is still disadvantaged in that it can only see what the player can see, and no more than that. For example a wallhack won't work well as the cheat simply can't get the locations of all the enemies, and can only highlight them when they actually appear on screen. Also most of the games you listed above are relatively simple to work with both in terms of rules and graphics - it would be much harder to have a functional bot for the many variables involved in a 3D FPS game with fog, bullet drop, friendly fire, and so on.
slaymaker1907 5y ago
That is definitely the endgame for cheating. I know in WoW, they explicitly ban hardware input broadcasting for multiboxers yet actually detecting that can be quite difficult. At the end of the day, we are trying to find technological solutions for social problems. What I think would really help would be to decrease the ease of duplicate account creation for services which care about cheating. Without that capability, punishing cheaters socially (i.e. bans) is never going to be particularly effective. I think social solutions can work because you don't need to stop 100% of cheaters like some people seem to believe. All you need to do is prevent enough cheating that people believe the game is honest overall. Locks only make sure honest people stay honest, but that actually works pretty well since most people are honest.

thatguy0900 5y ago

Screen reading cheats have existed for a long time, I remember using this in like middle school https://www.robotzindisguise.com/ https://www.robotzindisguise.com/