4 ms·

I'm not quite sure I follow it myself, but here are the key points as I understood: * Energy decline is accelerating. * Perf-per-watt is stagntting (hence the

I'm not quite sure I follow it myself, but here are the key points as I understood: * Energy decline is accelerating. * Perf-per-watt is stagntting (hence the comparisson of RPi @ 28nm vs M1 @ 5nm). * This trend leads to economic decline (Note: I don't understand why, maybe it's explained but I didn't get it). * Eventually hardware won't be replaceable. * Software should be improved to get better efficiency (Note: I'm not sure this is a claim made by OP, but it's something I understood). Edit: having taken the time to summarize what I understood from the comment, I must say I don't quite agree. The RPi vs M1 comparisson seems way way off, they both have a similar power envelope but the M1 has about 10x better results in various benchmarks. I don't agree that hardware won't be replaceable (save for a civilization shattering event, which is not what we're discussing here). I do believe software _could_ be more optimized, but then again I'm not sure that's a point OP was making (they did mention something about "software gatekeeping" which I took that way, probably misunderstood what they really meant). Now that I've thought about this some more, this is probably something I conflated into OPs post based on my opinions. I'm not quite sure what to think about energy decline. I think they meant about using more energy for things that used to take less energy before? If that is the correct interpretation, I'm not sure what we're talking about. On micro scales (eg: computers) I don't think that holds, but maybe it is happening on macro scales (eg: large industries). But even for macro scales, I think there's been a shift to efficiency, if only to reduce energy costs. Then again, that's not an area where I have the faintest idea, so maybe I'm blatantly wrong and OP is right.

jaratec 5y ago
I think the OP argument is: if you have less energy available, then you will manufacture fewer things. Hence the advice to seek long lasting, energy efficient, replaceable/repairable hardware.
- dr_zoidberg 5y ago
  The argument as you've written it here is interesting and makes sense, but I have trouble getting to that conclusion from OPs comment.
- bullen 5y ago
  Spot on! What I meant with gatekeeping was closed software (hard and firm too) that limits what the owner can and cannot do. Use linux!
  - dr_zoidberg 5y ago
    Got it. What about the RPi vs M1 numbers? I've not found anything in that regard that puts both chips on the same ballpark, M1 seems to be getting at least twice (and in general about 10x) the performance for a similar power envelope. Then again, I did have some trouble finding benchmarks that had ben tested on both, I ended up going for a few Phoronix benchmarks that showed the same tests[0, 1] [0] RPi: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=raspberry-pi4-benchmarks&num=2 https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=raspberr... [1] M1: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=apple-mac-m1&num=5 https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=apple-ma...
    - bullen 5y ago
      There are no CPU Gflops/W benchmarks online for M1, but my friends who have M1 laptops used this code to test it: https://github.com/brianolson/flops https://github.com/brianolson/flops The M1 is only good at highly specialized tasks that they have custom designed hard/firm/soft-ware for; which are all locked both legally and technically into a tomb where they will remain until the end of humanity. If you spend one second even thinking about them; you are wasting time for eternity! Infinite waste! RISC-V with an open GPU and linux is the only saving grace. I doubt we will manage before it's too late at a price/performance that can compete with Raspberry Pi 2/4 for server duty and Jetson Nano for client duty. Fingers crossed and may you spend your money wisely!
      - dr_zoidberg 5y ago
        Check, not a fan of M1 being super closed, but "it's the Apple way" (and I don't buy Apple products). RISC-V is very interesting, but so far it seems to have been too niche and not exploited to its full capacity. Here's hoping that changes in the (near?) future!

jaratec 5y ago

I think the OP argument is: if you have less energy available, then you will manufacture fewer things. Hence the advice to seek long lasting, energy efficient, replaceable/repairable hardware.

dr_zoidberg 5y ago
The argument as you've written it here is interesting and makes sense, but I have trouble getting to that conclusion from OPs comment.
bullen 5y ago
Spot on! What I meant with gatekeeping was closed software (hard and firm too) that limits what the owner can and cannot do. Use linux!
- dr_zoidberg 5y ago
  Got it. What about the RPi vs M1 numbers? I've not found anything in that regard that puts both chips on the same ballpark, M1 seems to be getting at least twice (and in general about 10x) the performance for a similar power envelope. Then again, I did have some trouble finding benchmarks that had ben tested on both, I ended up going for a few Phoronix benchmarks that showed the same tests[0, 1] [0] RPi: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=raspberry-pi4-benchmarks&num=2 https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=raspberr... [1] M1: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=apple-mac-m1&num=5 https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=apple-ma...
  - bullen 5y ago
    There are no CPU Gflops/W benchmarks online for M1, but my friends who have M1 laptops used this code to test it: https://github.com/brianolson/flops https://github.com/brianolson/flops The M1 is only good at highly specialized tasks that they have custom designed hard/firm/soft-ware for; which are all locked both legally and technically into a tomb where they will remain until the end of humanity. If you spend one second even thinking about them; you are wasting time for eternity! Infinite waste! RISC-V with an open GPU and linux is the only saving grace. I doubt we will manage before it's too late at a price/performance that can compete with Raspberry Pi 2/4 for server duty and Jetson Nano for client duty. Fingers crossed and may you spend your money wisely!
    - dr_zoidberg 5y ago
      Check, not a fan of M1 being super closed, but "it's the Apple way" (and I don't buy Apple products). RISC-V is very interesting, but so far it seems to have been too niche and not exploited to its full capacity. Here's hoping that changes in the (near?) future!