6 ms·

Actual user of the beta here. Happy to answer any questions that are honest. My opinion is let the technology develop in the open, warts and all.

by mcot2 5y ago

Jxl180 5y ago
My delivery isn’t until June but I’ve held off on buying FSD (maybe I’ll enable it for the month when I do a long trip), but I’m worried about this fantom braking issue I’ve heard about.
- sroussey 5y ago
  I would get an older one. Newer ones lack the expensive radar component. Camera-only can be disabled by kids with a Q-beam (bright flashlight).
  - mcot2 5y ago
    On the contrary phantom braking for me was almost always caused by the radars and especially with overpasses in front of you.
- mcot2 5y ago
  You will have basic autopilot which can also phantom brake. It is not as bad as it seems and was possibly worse when they used radar. As long as you are attentive to the system it is not a big deal.
  - soco 5y ago
    But why would I bother to buy an autonomous driver if I must be attentive to the system? I can just drive it myself then.
halotrope 5y ago
Does it work?
- mcot2 5y ago
  It does work quite well already and each release is getting better. I’ve done several city drives with zero interventions. As long as you are attentive it is very safe.
qbasic_forever 5y ago
Would you trust it to drive your mother or a loved one across the country with zero assistance or interventions?
- mcot2 5y ago
  It is not possible in the current state so the point is moot. Seeing how it works first hand I am a firm believer in the vision only approach. I do think one day this will be possible with Vision (cameras) only.
  - gizmondo 5y ago
    Why do you say that? Did you have a first hand experience with not-only-vision approach?
bantunes 5y ago
Doesn't "warts and all" for developing self-driving tech mean people dying?
- mcot2 5y ago
  It is possible and it has already happened with the Uber incident (even with that car having a saftey driver).
wpietri 5y ago
Help me understand how you think your opinion entitles you to gamble with other people's lives.
- mcot2 5y ago
  Because I don’t view it that way as an actual user of the system. I know I am still in full control of the vehicle as is any driver using it. Merely tapping the brakes is hardwired to return control to the driver. The system also has many controls to montior driver attentivness and alert or disable itself if the driver is not attentive. Recently folks have been kicked out of the beta program for lots of reasons so they are monitoring this closely.
  - protoax 5y ago
    Just because you can make steering, braking, and acceleration changes to the car does not mean you are “in control”. The software makes such aggressive decisions that it can become impossible to react, causing massive additional danger to others, such as was the case in the recent crash. https://twitter.com/mostlyharmlessz/status/1469421762555351042 https://twitter.com/mostlyharmlessz/status/14694217625553510...
    - mcot2 5y ago
      I don’t know the specifics of that incident but it should be exceedingly rare. I would like to know more about it and will try to find out more.
  - tqi 5y ago
    I see the argument, but I don't think driver control/supervision is actually the crux of the issue. If Firestone had a completely new tire technology that was mostly ok but had an elevated risk of spontaneously blowing out, I would not be happy if they were doing their beta testing in public roads regardless of who was driving. The technology being tested seems half baked and not yet ready for testing on a public roads. At the very least, their approach to software updates does not seem like its being sufficiently tested before deployment. This video[1] linked in another thread is an example of what I mean. [1] https://twitter.com/mostlyharmlessz/status/1469421762555351042?s=20 https://twitter.com/mostlyharmlessz/status/14694217625553510...
tqi 5y ago
As someone who shares a road with Teslas, it feels like I have been enrolled in this beta without my consent, and without any tangible benefits to me. What are the arguments for why non-owners should support this approach?
- NikolaeVarius 5y ago
  As someone who shares (reality) with (people), it feels like I have been enrolled in this beta (consisting of taking photos, video recording, coughing, driving) without my consent, and without any tangible benefits to me. What are the arguments for why non-owners should support this approach?
  - tqi 5y ago
    I actually have no idea what point you are trying to make, assuming there was one.
  - beeboop 5y ago
    I have a dash cam in my Yaris. It's not any different than a Tesla recording video around you.
- mcot2 5y ago
  There are several tangible benefits if you drive near a lot of Teslas on autopilot in a highway setting. Besides the advantages of adaptive cruise control (constant speed and set follow distance) it is adding safe lane changes where it always has visbility into blind spots and always activates the blinkers. This beta adds the same benefits and more on city streets.
kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
The ultimate fake it 'til you make it.
beeboop 5y ago
Having seen many hours of FSD beta on Youtube, with the most recent updates, I am convinced the FSD driving is safer on the highway than humans driving. I bet the stats for accidents per mile driven are much lower for FSD than humans. It does stumble, very gracefully, in really unusual circumstances when driving in city streets. But it's so so close to covering these outlier situations. If I could choose to have only FSD teslas around me on the highway, or only human drivers, I'd pick the FSD every time.
- mcot2 5y ago
  This is pretty much my experience. A lot of people testing it are in city centers with lots of complex things going on. For the most part in suburbs or smaller cities the driving is a lot more straightforward and it is already quite good there.

Actual user of the beta here. Happy to answer any questions that are honest. My opinion is let the technology develop in the open, warts and all.

by mcot2 5y ago

Actual user of the beta here. Happy to answer any questions that are honest. My opinion is let the technology develop in the open, warts and all.

Jxl180 5y ago

My delivery isn’t until June but I’ve held off on buying FSD (maybe I’ll enable it for the month when I do a long trip), but I’m worried about this fantom braking issue I’ve heard about.

sroussey 5y ago
I would get an older one. Newer ones lack the expensive radar component. Camera-only can be disabled by kids with a Q-beam (bright flashlight).
- mcot2 5y ago
  On the contrary phantom braking for me was almost always caused by the radars and especially with overpasses in front of you.
mcot2 5y ago
You will have basic autopilot which can also phantom brake. It is not as bad as it seems and was possibly worse when they used radar. As long as you are attentive to the system it is not a big deal.
- soco 5y ago
  But why would I bother to buy an autonomous driver if I must be attentive to the system? I can just drive it myself then.

halotrope 5y ago

Does it work?

mcot2 5y ago
It does work quite well already and each release is getting better. I’ve done several city drives with zero interventions. As long as you are attentive it is very safe.

qbasic_forever 5y ago

Would you trust it to drive your mother or a loved one across the country with zero assistance or interventions?

mcot2 5y ago
It is not possible in the current state so the point is moot. Seeing how it works first hand I am a firm believer in the vision only approach. I do think one day this will be possible with Vision (cameras) only.
- gizmondo 5y ago
  Why do you say that? Did you have a first hand experience with not-only-vision approach?

bantunes 5y ago

Doesn't "warts and all" for developing self-driving tech mean people dying?

mcot2 5y ago
It is possible and it has already happened with the Uber incident (even with that car having a saftey driver).

wpietri 5y ago

Help me understand how you think your opinion entitles you to gamble with other people's lives.

mcot2 5y ago
Because I don’t view it that way as an actual user of the system. I know I am still in full control of the vehicle as is any driver using it. Merely tapping the brakes is hardwired to return control to the driver. The system also has many controls to montior driver attentivness and alert or disable itself if the driver is not attentive. Recently folks have been kicked out of the beta program for lots of reasons so they are monitoring this closely.
- protoax 5y ago
  Just because you can make steering, braking, and acceleration changes to the car does not mean you are “in control”. The software makes such aggressive decisions that it can become impossible to react, causing massive additional danger to others, such as was the case in the recent crash. https://twitter.com/mostlyharmlessz/status/1469421762555351042 https://twitter.com/mostlyharmlessz/status/14694217625553510...
  - mcot2 5y ago
    I don’t know the specifics of that incident but it should be exceedingly rare. I would like to know more about it and will try to find out more.
- tqi 5y ago
  I see the argument, but I don't think driver control/supervision is actually the crux of the issue. If Firestone had a completely new tire technology that was mostly ok but had an elevated risk of spontaneously blowing out, I would not be happy if they were doing their beta testing in public roads regardless of who was driving. The technology being tested seems half baked and not yet ready for testing on a public roads. At the very least, their approach to software updates does not seem like its being sufficiently tested before deployment. This video[1] linked in another thread is an example of what I mean. [1] https://twitter.com/mostlyharmlessz/status/1469421762555351042?s=20 https://twitter.com/mostlyharmlessz/status/14694217625553510...

tqi 5y ago

As someone who shares a road with Teslas, it feels like I have been enrolled in this beta without my consent, and without any tangible benefits to me. What are the arguments for why non-owners should support this approach?

NikolaeVarius 5y ago
As someone who shares (reality) with (people), it feels like I have been enrolled in this beta (consisting of taking photos, video recording, coughing, driving) without my consent, and without any tangible benefits to me. What are the arguments for why non-owners should support this approach?
- tqi 5y ago
  I actually have no idea what point you are trying to make, assuming there was one.
- beeboop 5y ago
  I have a dash cam in my Yaris. It's not any different than a Tesla recording video around you.
mcot2 5y ago
There are several tangible benefits if you drive near a lot of Teslas on autopilot in a highway setting. Besides the advantages of adaptive cruise control (constant speed and set follow distance) it is adding safe lane changes where it always has visbility into blind spots and always activates the blinkers. This beta adds the same benefits and more on city streets.

kevin_thibedeau 5y ago

The ultimate fake it 'til you make it.

beeboop 5y ago

Having seen many hours of FSD beta on Youtube, with the most recent updates, I am convinced the FSD driving is safer on the highway than humans driving. I bet the stats for accidents per mile driven are much lower for FSD than humans. It does stumble, very gracefully, in really unusual circumstances when driving in city streets. But it's so so close to covering these outlier situations. If I could choose to have only FSD teslas around me on the highway, or only human drivers, I'd pick the FSD every time.

mcot2 5y ago
This is pretty much my experience. A lot of people testing it are in city centers with lots of complex things going on. For the most part in suburbs or smaller cities the driving is a lot more straightforward and it is already quite good there.