3 ms·

Are you saying that there are no profitable mines in the world?

by hnarn 5y ago

hotpotamus 5y ago
If you had a profitable mine, would you sell shares in it?
- hnarn 5y ago
  I don't know what you're implying. Why do you think shares exist?
  - hotpotamus 5y ago
    I believe shares exist to raise capital to exploit a natural resource in this case. But if I already have a profitable mine, I doubt I'd have much incentive to invite others to share ownership of that mine. However, if I have a hole in the ground that doesn't produce anything of value, then it's in my interest to sell shares of it since that might be my only income. Just a thought really - in spite of hearing many good Twain quotes in my life, this was a new one to me, so I'm kind of working through it.
    - convolutionart 5y ago
      Selling shares hedges your risk. Investors are also trying to hedge theirs. That's all it is, a tool to hedge risks. When it's not based in reality it's speculation a.k.a. gambling.
    - hnarn 5y ago
      > if I already have a profitable mine, I doubt I'd have much incentive to invite others to share ownership of that mine "Profit" isn't binary, it's an amount of capital that may or may not be enough to invest in things that are likely to increase your profits even more. If you need extra capital to increase your profits, would you as the owner rather wait 20 years and pay for the investments yourself, or share the profits right now and take less risk? Shares aren't a scam, it's just a pitch for investing. It's a risk/reward presentation that investors can choose to buy if they want. When companies issue shares they're saying "we could use some more money, have a look at our business and if it makes sense, buy some". There's nothing remotely dubious about it, and there are many legitimate situations where a company requires more capital despite being profitable.
    - aurizon 5y ago
      Few mines start and go to full production without outside venture cash = you sell shares, lose part of the control, but use their money to ramp up production. It depends on what you want to do. Bootstrapping from a zero start needs after tax $$. As you start digging you start to sell metals and also pay your taxes, so the ramp up is slowed by the taxes. You can sell $10,000,000 in shares, so now have $10 million and the investor has some paper shares. No taxes are due yet, but you can build a $10 million mine and be in production and make $10 million annually for 60 years, It might cost $3 million for all costs = $7 million profit x 28% taxes ~~= $2 million in taxes and $5 million to divvy up with the shareholders, each and every year for 60 years = you choose. There are venture capitalists for mining IPO's as well as Wall Street IPO's. You pick what you know best.
aurizon 5y ago
Mining is an area with a very high riskware ratio. 100 years ago, mines were found by surface prospecting. You mind some ore, be it gold, silver, copper, zinc. and you dig a hole and manually remove the ore. You have seen the old movies with the quintessential bearded prospector. Back in those days a lot of land was state/federal/crown land. You could get a prospectors licence and stake land. This consists of placing a number of wooden stakes in a more or less North-South grid, with you name date and licence number - which was then filed with the relevant government. That gave you the right to exclude others and explore the claims for minerals for 2 years, after which it could be renewed for an additional fee and you also had to file a geologists report on the work you did of a certain minimum value. You could keep doing this and if you had a potential mine, you could ask for a mining lease, and if granted take bulk samples or did a mine - usually by rock blasting in hard rock, but could also be with a grader if you mined aluminum bauxite. about 1 in a 100 surface prospects end up in a mine. Mines can be immensely profitable. A case in point. Foran Mining was 12 cents 2 years ago. (https://foranmining.com/)Since https://foranmining.com/)Since then their copper/zinc/gold mine has drilled and proven 40 million tonnes of ore, and it looks as if it will end up between 60 and 80 million tons. This mine will last for 50-60 years and then it will be a worthless hole in the ground. Once in production in 3 years it will head for $40-50 per share from the current $2.50 So 100 holes = 1 mine. That can be 99 crooks and one good prospector, or even 100 good honest prospectors, of which one was lucky and 99 not so much. The truth is mines are very profitable, and the trick is to find one. Modern mine discovery is driven by geophysics, since most of the rich surface showings have been found in hard rock areas. Over the next 2-3 years Foran will start producing Copper, Zinc and gold for the next ~~ 60 years and will reward investors well and will pay a cash dividend for ~~60 years...

Are you saying that there are no profitable mines in the world?

by hnarn 5y ago

Are you saying that there are no profitable mines in the world?

hotpotamus 5y ago

If you had a profitable mine, would you sell shares in it?

hnarn 5y ago
I don't know what you're implying. Why do you think shares exist?
- hotpotamus 5y ago
  I believe shares exist to raise capital to exploit a natural resource in this case. But if I already have a profitable mine, I doubt I'd have much incentive to invite others to share ownership of that mine. However, if I have a hole in the ground that doesn't produce anything of value, then it's in my interest to sell shares of it since that might be my only income. Just a thought really - in spite of hearing many good Twain quotes in my life, this was a new one to me, so I'm kind of working through it.
  - convolutionart 5y ago
    Selling shares hedges your risk. Investors are also trying to hedge theirs. That's all it is, a tool to hedge risks. When it's not based in reality it's speculation a.k.a. gambling.
  - hnarn 5y ago
    > if I already have a profitable mine, I doubt I'd have much incentive to invite others to share ownership of that mine "Profit" isn't binary, it's an amount of capital that may or may not be enough to invest in things that are likely to increase your profits even more. If you need extra capital to increase your profits, would you as the owner rather wait 20 years and pay for the investments yourself, or share the profits right now and take less risk? Shares aren't a scam, it's just a pitch for investing. It's a risk/reward presentation that investors can choose to buy if they want. When companies issue shares they're saying "we could use some more money, have a look at our business and if it makes sense, buy some". There's nothing remotely dubious about it, and there are many legitimate situations where a company requires more capital despite being profitable.
  - aurizon 5y ago
    Few mines start and go to full production without outside venture cash = you sell shares, lose part of the control, but use their money to ramp up production. It depends on what you want to do. Bootstrapping from a zero start needs after tax $$. As you start digging you start to sell metals and also pay your taxes, so the ramp up is slowed by the taxes. You can sell $10,000,000 in shares, so now have $10 million and the investor has some paper shares. No taxes are due yet, but you can build a $10 million mine and be in production and make $10 million annually for 60 years, It might cost $3 million for all costs = $7 million profit x 28% taxes ~~= $2 million in taxes and $5 million to divvy up with the shareholders, each and every year for 60 years = you choose. There are venture capitalists for mining IPO's as well as Wall Street IPO's. You pick what you know best.

aurizon 5y ago

Mining is an area with a very high riskware ratio. 100 years ago, mines were found by surface prospecting. You mind some ore, be it gold, silver, copper, zinc. and you dig a hole and manually remove the ore. You have seen the old movies with the quintessential bearded prospector. Back in those days a lot of land was state/federal/crown land. You could get a prospectors licence and stake land. This consists of placing a number of wooden stakes in a more or less North-South grid, with you name date and licence number - which was then filed with the relevant government. That gave you the right to exclude others and explore the claims for minerals for 2 years, after which it could be renewed for an additional fee and you also had to file a geologists report on the work you did of a certain minimum value. You could keep doing this and if you had a potential mine, you could ask for a mining lease, and if granted take bulk samples or did a mine - usually by rock blasting in hard rock, but could also be with a grader if you mined aluminum bauxite. about 1 in a 100 surface prospects end up in a mine. Mines can be immensely profitable. A case in point. Foran Mining was 12 cents 2 years ago. (https://foranmining.com/)Since https://foranmining.com/)Since then their copper/zinc/gold mine has drilled and proven 40 million tonnes of ore, and it looks as if it will end up between 60 and 80 million tons. This mine will last for 50-60 years and then it will be a worthless hole in the ground. Once in production in 3 years it will head for $40-50 per share from the current $2.50 So 100 holes = 1 mine. That can be 99 crooks and one good prospector, or even 100 good honest prospectors, of which one was lucky and 99 not so much. The truth is mines are very profitable, and the trick is to find one. Modern mine discovery is driven by geophysics, since most of the rich surface showings have been found in hard rock areas. Over the next 2-3 years Foran will start producing Copper, Zinc and gold for the next ~~ 60 years and will reward investors well and will pay a cash dividend for ~~60 years...