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The "demographic contagion" is explained in the article as a spread of cultural mores towards smaller families. There could also be an economic explanation. Tr

The "demographic contagion" is explained in the article as a spread of cultural mores towards smaller families. There could also be an economic explanation. Traditionally large families were favored because they provided old-age security to parents. If an immigrant from a developing country is able to support their parents with remittances from a developed country, then there is less of a need for large families in the developing country.

FourthProtocol 5y ago
The article does mention economic factors - e.g. the desire for families to educate their children, which for a family with many children is prohibitively expensive.
lotsofpulp 5y ago
> Traditionally large families were favored because they provided old-age security to parents. Were they? If we asked old women why they had 3, 4, 5+ kids, would they say it was so they would have old age security or were they having them because they did not have a choice to not have them?
- thriftwy 5y ago
  When people don't want to have kids it's not very hard not to. You may end up with one or two children that way due to fallibility of naive contraception, but it's hard to imagine how a couple will end up with 4 children despite wanting none. There's a reason why Pushkin had 4 children by the time he got shot, the man was no fool to do that accidentally.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    The subtext of my comment is that the woman in the relationship may not have had a choice in wanting or not wanting children. It does not even have to be outright rape, just the implications of women being dependent on men or older family members and other societal expectations.
    - thriftwy 5y ago
      Why would you expect men to want children more than women do, and force that choice upon them? That's not what men strive to, usually, in our experience. Societal pressure may exist but, since society consists of men and women, you still need to explain their motivation. To me, it is a mystery-ish.
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
        In previous generations in currently developed countries, the cost of child rearing was not borne by men. 2 or 4 or 6 kids, it did not make much difference. I know both of my grandfathers did not really even touch their kids until they were walking and talking. It is not that the men wanted or did not want kids, they could not have cared less. Or they could have wanted them as assets, at least the boys. Either way, I doubt too many were sufficiently fussed about the woman’s sacrifices, especially if it meant they had to completely give up sex.
        thriftwy 5y ago
        Why would they need to give up sex? Coitus interrups is not a Roman legion commander aftre all.
        lotsofpulp 5y ago
        Because they did not have access to convenient contraception and/or using condoms was not acceptable to them? We went from it being common to see women having 5 kids to it being rare within 1 to 2 generations. I would bet on it being due to women gaining true independence.
inglor_cz 5y ago
Female literacy is very strongly associated with falling birth rates. The Taliban probably knew why they wanted to keep Afghan girls illiterate (or Boko Haram in Nigeria) - more young warriors in the future. Edit: just to be clear, I am not condoning that. Only thinking about possible motivations.

FourthProtocol 5y ago

The article does mention economic factors - e.g. the desire for families to educate their children, which for a family with many children is prohibitively expensive.

lotsofpulp 5y ago

> Traditionally large families were favored because they provided old-age security to parents. Were they? If we asked old women why they had 3, 4, 5+ kids, would they say it was so they would have old age security or were they having them because they did not have a choice to not have them?

thriftwy 5y ago
When people don't want to have kids it's not very hard not to. You may end up with one or two children that way due to fallibility of naive contraception, but it's hard to imagine how a couple will end up with 4 children despite wanting none. There's a reason why Pushkin had 4 children by the time he got shot, the man was no fool to do that accidentally.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  The subtext of my comment is that the woman in the relationship may not have had a choice in wanting or not wanting children. It does not even have to be outright rape, just the implications of women being dependent on men or older family members and other societal expectations.
  - thriftwy 5y ago
    Why would you expect men to want children more than women do, and force that choice upon them? That's not what men strive to, usually, in our experience. Societal pressure may exist but, since society consists of men and women, you still need to explain their motivation. To me, it is a mystery-ish.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      In previous generations in currently developed countries, the cost of child rearing was not borne by men. 2 or 4 or 6 kids, it did not make much difference. I know both of my grandfathers did not really even touch their kids until they were walking and talking. It is not that the men wanted or did not want kids, they could not have cared less. Or they could have wanted them as assets, at least the boys. Either way, I doubt too many were sufficiently fussed about the woman’s sacrifices, especially if it meant they had to completely give up sex.
      - thriftwy 5y ago
        Why would they need to give up sex? Coitus interrups is not a Roman legion commander aftre all.
        lotsofpulp 5y ago
        Because they did not have access to convenient contraception and/or using condoms was not acceptable to them? We went from it being common to see women having 5 kids to it being rare within 1 to 2 generations. I would bet on it being due to women gaining true independence.

inglor_cz 5y ago

Female literacy is very strongly associated with falling birth rates. The Taliban probably knew why they wanted to keep Afghan girls illiterate (or Boko Haram in Nigeria) - more young warriors in the future. Edit: just to be clear, I am not condoning that. Only thinking about possible motivations.