5 ms·
The demonstrative 那 and 是 as a copula are the most obvious ones as well as the exclusive use of 不. Individually they are each found in some Wu varieties and oth
by dwohnitmok 5y ago
The demonstrative 那 and 是 as a copula are the most obvious ones as well as the exclusive use of 不. Individually they are each found in some Wu varieties and other varieties, but that is often a bleed-over from Mandarin.
More generally, the following are a small sampling of dominant, geographically independent characteristics of Song written vernacular that make me say that it is clearly Mandarin.
1. The standard pronouns are all the same. We have 我, 你, 他, with the appropriate 們 (often also spelled many different ways just as 門 or later on as we get to the Yuan and Ming dynasty 每). Note that unlike the Tang dynasty 他 and 你 are far and away clearly the dominant, geographically-independent pronouns of the standard vernacular.
2. The near demonstrative is 這 (also spelled 者, 遮, or otherwise) and the far demonstrative is 那. While other demonstratives exist (as is the case even in modern Mandarin) these are far and away the most popular, regardless of region.
3. The order of words is effectively always the same as modern Mandarin.
4. The copula is always 是.
5. The various uses of 個 as an auxiliary word apart from just a 量詞 are generally a superset of modern Mandarin.
6. The interrogative for "where" is 哪 (spelled 那) that is paired in all the same ways as in modern Mandarin (那裏, 那個, etc.).
7. The interrogative for "what" is variations of 什麼/甚麼 (e.g. literally those or 甚底 or other things involving 甚).
And so so many other auxiliary words (著, 正, etc.).
In fact, if anything, a general rule of thumb for Song vernacular is that modern Mandarin represents a subset of the usages of various function words in the Song vernacular (e.g. 著 has all the uses it does in modern Mandarin in addition to being something more similar to 被 and other things) and modern Mandarin has simply gotten more "strict" (this is of course a simplification).
- FabHK 5y agoI'm by no means an expert, but it appears to me that one could use a similar list to demonstrate that, dunno, Spanish "is clearly" French, or so.
- dwohnitmok 5y agoI mean if the personal pronouns, copula, word order, core auxiliary and particle words, interrogatives and the like are the same between two languages separated by time that's pretty good evidence that one is the ancestor of the other. More specifically to Chinese, if you read any comparative text on different Sinitic families, these word categories are the usual starting points of comparison between them and used to identify each. I haven't done the equivalent of examine 100 different word categories and only pick the 10 that prove my point. And every single Sinitic family other than Mandarin diverges from this list (as I explain in slightly more detail here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29533678 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29533678).