6 ms·

We (younger than 30ish) are in for some crazy times IMO You can order parts to reliably make guns fully automatic straight to your door, thousands of rounds of

by s5300 5y ago

We (younger than 30ish) are in for some crazy times IMO You can order parts to reliably make guns fully automatic straight to your door, thousands of rounds of ammunition for a weeks worth of minimum wage work straight to your door, poisons such as what this article refers to straight to your door… gun suppressors straight to your door… I just think were going to see a ton of people in the US snapping and doing crazy shit if we fall into economic decline & keep dismantling our social safety nets. When I was living in San Diego, I became aware of a dude in a totally normal ass suburb leaving poisoned meat around the entire block, for months on end, after the apparent last straw of dog shit on his lawn snapped. I’m not entirely sure why, but everybody knew - and the cops/city did nothing/were unable to do anything about it. Would be crazy to find out if he was getting whatever poison he used straight from Amazon.

seabird 5y ago
You can order parts to make your gun fully automatic straight to your door without filling out a Form 4 if you want to commit a federal crime that the ATF likely will follow up on. You can order suppressors straight to your door without filling out a Form 4 if you want to commit a federal crime that the ATF likely will follow up on. You can _not_ buy thousands of rounds worth of any ammo other than .22 with a week's worth of minimum wage pay (if you know something that I don't, let me know where you're finding these deals). The time will probably come for poison like this very soon. None of this is to say that terrorism isn't fairly easy, all things considered. The law does very little to stop these things before they happen. The big takeaway is that the vast majority of people aren't violent and unreasonable. You've always been able to do these things, usually more easily in the past than you could today, but we've never had issues with it (at least in the US) to the point where the average person you bump into on the street will have personally experienced it.
- sueders101 5y ago
  "You can _not_ buy thousands of rounds worth of any ammo other than .22 with a week's worth of minimum wage pay (if you know something that I don't, let me know where you're finding these deals)." It's pretty close. Ammoseek shows 9mm starting at ~$0.30 per round, and most other popular pistol calibers starting at ~$0.40 to ~$0.45 per round. And it's easy to find better deals if you're checking the r/gundeals subreddit periodically. That puts 2000 rounds of 9mm at around the gross income weekly income for someone earning $15/hour.
  - akomtu 5y ago
    600 bucks also buy a lot of cheap gasoline and matchsticks.
    - s5300 5y ago
      Three (3) whole YEET Cannons
  - seabird 5y ago
    The West Coast is not the entire US. Most states don't have a $15 minimum wage. That pricing is mostly at 1000 round quantities. 50 round boxes are usually between $20 to $25 a box. The assertion is correct in the sense that somebody living in a state with an exceptionally high minimum wage can buy a thousand rounds of ammo that isn't .22 in a week's pay if they have absolutely no other expenses is just barely correct in a strictly technical sense, but doesn't really add up for the purposes of this conversation. Even if you were willing to go completely broke spending every cent you make on ammo, you would need another $500 minimum to buy a cheap carbine and enough magazines to carry 200 rounds with you in a reasonable manner.
- s5300 5y ago
  You’re correct on the vast majority of people aren’t violent and unreasonable part… but I very much think you’re missing a point. Yes, you could mostly always buy something like a part to make a gun fully automatic or a suppressor online. Anybody with the slightest technical skills could make the full auto parts with some metal stock & a dremel. But a lot of people aren’t thinking into it that much when they’re impulsive. But in the year 2000, you would have to put a bit of effort into finding these things online, and if you were underage it would have been much harder to instantly/easily purchase. Now wish.com and everything else exist - you can find the parts in seconds, and you have a plethora of ways to easily purchase them underage & shipped to your door in two days. Yes, the vast majority of these are ATF/Fed or whatever else honeypots… but sometimes that doesn’t really matter if you already have a plan & are ready the day your parts come in. 1000 rounds of 7.62x39 is ~$350. Do minimum wage workers not take in ~$350 weekly anymore?
  - cestith 5y ago
    Minimum wage where? $7.25 for 40 hours is still $290 before taxes, yes? That's federal minimum wage in the United States, and that's only for untipped workers on W-2 who can manage to get a full time schedule. Some states have substantially higher minimums, though, and don't allow wage discrimination against wait staff.
  - seabird 5y ago
    You can make any firearm with a pistol grip that has the charging handle fixed to the bolt carrier full-auto by tying a string to a charging handle, wrapping it around the grip and then the trigger. You could very easily figure this out by just sitting down and looking at the gun. I can't think of a single instance where somebody has done this in a mass shooting. The fact of the matter is that full-auto guns are nowhere near as dangerous or "useful" for mass shootings as people think they are. 1000 rounds of Russian steel-case can be found with some effort for a price like that right now. With the Russian import ban, it's getting significantly harder to find. Federal minimum wage is $7.25 -- you might be able get 1000 rounds of 9mm if you find a deal and are willing to spend literally 100% of your paycheck on it. 1000 rounds of anything other than 9mm on federal minimum wage is a fluke that cannot be reliably repeated.
laurent92 5y ago
The dismantling of safety nets is a circumvoluted problem. Safety nets are a feature of rather leftist politics (To me, helping others is the core of leftism). However, the same ones who set up the safety nets, have a racial preference towards helping those they perceive as in the worst situation. Yesterday it was the factory workers, today it’s women, african americans and LGBTQIA+. So, by increasing the safety nets, we are not making things better for the people you are talking about, the white men. For them, no help is coming: They are the subject of the joke, the black sheep of people who want to help. This incongruity ensures that the divide will only widen, not reduce, as you increase help for people in need. As an example, shooters in school are often white kids getting bullied, who snap. Did we end bullying? Do we make documentaries on who bullied them? No, we further pile upon the hate towards the people who snap (hard to do otherwise). It ensures that the next guy won’t find help against his bullies, and this beautiful circle continues… I say beautiful because, to abstain from finding solutions, there has to be people who find this beautiful. Anyway. If social help went to everyone, and if everyone were considered as important parts of the society, people wouldn’t snap that much.
- okeuro49 5y ago
  > To me, helping others is the core of leftism People on the right wing also want to help others, but the method is different: helping people to help themselves. I think there are risks to both. People can become dependent on safety nets. People can also need more help than just "pull yourself up by your bootstraps". > I say beautiful because, to abstain from finding solutions, there has to be people who find this beautiful. From an outside perspective, shootings are an intractable US problem because of the US's relationship with guns. It's not that people are "abstaining" because they somehow like the situation.
  - JackMorgan 5y ago
    To play devil's advocate and be only a little cheeky, it seems the way the right of recent American politics tries to help people help themselves is to offer them military-grade weaponry, deregulated environmental protections, laws to enforce sexual and vice Christian-specific rules not widely agreed on by non-Christians, and decreased worker protections. This seems almost perfectly calculated to help them become criminals or wage slaves to modern robber barons. The people most served by the modern right are the robber barons themselves (except for the weapons part). If I was a robber baron the last thing I'd want is all my workers watching their livelihoods disappear to all have automatic weapons. I think this is why so much messaging goes to convince people that their worsening situation is because LGBTQ+ or immigrants exist and God is punishing them for the "wickedness of the land." I myself very much would prefer a model that helps people help themselves, but I am unclear what policies would achieve that goal that aren't already supported by the left. Many Americans don't want hand outs, they want dignity and a good job that pays them a thriving wage. However, they also will vote against policies that enforce a fair wage, because it's coming from the mouths of "sinners" who for all they know are causing this via "wickedness." The left can be very condescending and is large enough to have lots of people who similarly think that lack of ideological purity is the cause of the nation's issues, only the ideology is not completely agreed on by any of followers, so it's always shifting, which gives the impression that it's less serious and is very easy to mock. There's a lot about making places safer, which runs counter to how many Americans want to see themselves: they don't want places to be safer, they want to be tougher individuals, so such attempts feel weak to them. As someone who's studied the Bible far more than average (I read New Treatment Greek and went to seminary for a bit), I feel like there is _very_ little thought about sins like pride, hatefulness, and gluttony in the modern church, so it's only a partial truth according to the Bible. Describing the classic "fruits of the Spirit" does not sound anything like the modern Right: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, and self-control. It seems a situation where the messaging has just enough Christian ethics to resemble some of what one would hear from church leadership, but without the inward reflection required of most of the New Testament. It's very Old Testament with messaging that implies "it's these sinners among you who are the problem and need to be stopped or killed." The New Testament would instead lead someone to conclude that if they are being punished it is from their own personal sin. This is enforced with lessons like "let he without sin cast the first stone." I really diverged a bit here, but I've been thinking a lot about the situation of politics. The right cannot be understood without understanding how much of that worldview is shaped by religion, but also that it really isn't a Christian worldview, it's an Old Testament worldview. Too many people crave "righteous" wrath against sinners, not humble admission that all are sinners all the time, and we all need grace and forgiveness not a murderous rampage. As it pertains to policies, I'm not sure how to even start to deescalate the situation. But attempting to do so without understanding the worldviews involved will never work.
Aengeuad 5y ago
The way gun suppressors work in movies and TV is complete fiction, in real life suppressors can attenuate gun shots by maybe 15-35 dB SPL at best. 140 dB SPL is the threshold at which sound causes pain, 120 dB SPL is the threshold that risks instantaneous noise-induced hearing loss, and most rifles and handguns using standard ammunition are in the 140-170 dB SPL range. Even with a suppressor the volume a typical gun produces is enough to be painful and to cause permanent hearing loss if no additional hearing protection is used. In the typical best case scenario using an extremely underpowered subsonic .22LR round with a suppressor a gun shot will still be in the 120 dB SPL range, and for reference, hunting even small muntjac deer with a .22LR would be considered inhumane and in many parts of the world (including many American states) it is illegal to do so. It is a round intended to shoot rodents and birds. I realise this comment is a nitpick but it's something that needs to be brought up any time suppressors are brought up. The only relevance suppressors have on the gun control argument is that their use and sale means that gun operators have less risk of suffering from hearing loss (especially when shooting indoors in a range) and people living near shooting ranges are less likely to complain about noise, i.e., there's no public safety argument here, it's purely ideological, and that's fine if it's what you're going for but it's not a compelling argument or one that holds up to scrutiny. As a point of comparison, there's very little controversy over suppressors in Europe and typically no additional regulations are placed on their ownership beyond the regulations necessary to own the guns that they're used with.
- s5300 5y ago
  No, you can get literal Hollywood quiet with suppressors. If you’ve never gotten to experience that, sorry I guess haha. A Kel-Tec CP33 or Ruger MKIV with various forms of attached suppressors or integrated suppressors shooting CCI subsonic .22 is Hollywood quiet. Less noise than a BB gun. There are various other calibers that can get pretty damn close to as quiet as those as well. For your traditional military calibers across the globe - yes, they’re still pretty damn loud suppressed. I think .50 bmg or Lapua suppressed is still as loud as 7.62x39 unsuppressed. But to say you can’t get Hollywood quiet is simply incorrect, and there’s still a factor of louder calibers pitch being changed to something that a person not in the immediate vicinity could confuse as construction instead of gunfire. As much as I personally enjoy suppressors… I do have issue with the fact anybody can get their hands on one next day. Just work for a gun range in any mid sized town for two weeks and your honest thoughts about just about literally anybody being able to obtain a firearm will likely change. People are fucking dumb man.
kingcharles 5y ago
Can confirm that fully automatic AR-15 is effect against both rats and mice.

by s5300 5y ago

seabird 5y ago

You can order parts to make your gun fully automatic straight to your door without filling out a Form 4 if you want to commit a federal crime that the ATF likely will follow up on. You can order suppressors straight to your door without filling out a Form 4 if you want to commit a federal crime that the ATF likely will follow up on. You can _not_ buy thousands of rounds worth of any ammo other than .22 with a week's worth of minimum wage pay (if you know something that I don't, let me know where you're finding these deals). The time will probably come for poison like this very soon. None of this is to say that terrorism isn't fairly easy, all things considered. The law does very little to stop these things before they happen. The big takeaway is that the vast majority of people aren't violent and unreasonable. You've always been able to do these things, usually more easily in the past than you could today, but we've never had issues with it (at least in the US) to the point where the average person you bump into on the street will have personally experienced it.

sueders101 5y ago
"You can _not_ buy thousands of rounds worth of any ammo other than .22 with a week's worth of minimum wage pay (if you know something that I don't, let me know where you're finding these deals)." It's pretty close. Ammoseek shows 9mm starting at ~$0.30 per round, and most other popular pistol calibers starting at ~$0.40 to ~$0.45 per round. And it's easy to find better deals if you're checking the r/gundeals subreddit periodically. That puts 2000 rounds of 9mm at around the gross income weekly income for someone earning $15/hour.
- akomtu 5y ago
  600 bucks also buy a lot of cheap gasoline and matchsticks.
  - s5300 5y ago
    Three (3) whole YEET Cannons
- seabird 5y ago
  The West Coast is not the entire US. Most states don't have a $15 minimum wage. That pricing is mostly at 1000 round quantities. 50 round boxes are usually between $20 to $25 a box. The assertion is correct in the sense that somebody living in a state with an exceptionally high minimum wage can buy a thousand rounds of ammo that isn't .22 in a week's pay if they have absolutely no other expenses is just barely correct in a strictly technical sense, but doesn't really add up for the purposes of this conversation. Even if you were willing to go completely broke spending every cent you make on ammo, you would need another $500 minimum to buy a cheap carbine and enough magazines to carry 200 rounds with you in a reasonable manner.
s5300 5y ago
You’re correct on the vast majority of people aren’t violent and unreasonable part… but I very much think you’re missing a point. Yes, you could mostly always buy something like a part to make a gun fully automatic or a suppressor online. Anybody with the slightest technical skills could make the full auto parts with some metal stock & a dremel. But a lot of people aren’t thinking into it that much when they’re impulsive. But in the year 2000, you would have to put a bit of effort into finding these things online, and if you were underage it would have been much harder to instantly/easily purchase. Now wish.com and everything else exist - you can find the parts in seconds, and you have a plethora of ways to easily purchase them underage & shipped to your door in two days. Yes, the vast majority of these are ATF/Fed or whatever else honeypots… but sometimes that doesn’t really matter if you already have a plan & are ready the day your parts come in. 1000 rounds of 7.62x39 is ~$350. Do minimum wage workers not take in ~$350 weekly anymore?
- cestith 5y ago
  Minimum wage where? $7.25 for 40 hours is still $290 before taxes, yes? That's federal minimum wage in the United States, and that's only for untipped workers on W-2 who can manage to get a full time schedule. Some states have substantially higher minimums, though, and don't allow wage discrimination against wait staff.
- seabird 5y ago
  You can make any firearm with a pistol grip that has the charging handle fixed to the bolt carrier full-auto by tying a string to a charging handle, wrapping it around the grip and then the trigger. You could very easily figure this out by just sitting down and looking at the gun. I can't think of a single instance where somebody has done this in a mass shooting. The fact of the matter is that full-auto guns are nowhere near as dangerous or "useful" for mass shootings as people think they are. 1000 rounds of Russian steel-case can be found with some effort for a price like that right now. With the Russian import ban, it's getting significantly harder to find. Federal minimum wage is $7.25 -- you might be able get 1000 rounds of 9mm if you find a deal and are willing to spend literally 100% of your paycheck on it. 1000 rounds of anything other than 9mm on federal minimum wage is a fluke that cannot be reliably repeated.

laurent92 5y ago

The dismantling of safety nets is a circumvoluted problem. Safety nets are a feature of rather leftist politics (To me, helping others is the core of leftism). However, the same ones who set up the safety nets, have a racial preference towards helping those they perceive as in the worst situation. Yesterday it was the factory workers, today it’s women, african americans and LGBTQIA+. So, by increasing the safety nets, we are not making things better for the people you are talking about, the white men. For them, no help is coming: They are the subject of the joke, the black sheep of people who want to help. This incongruity ensures that the divide will only widen, not reduce, as you increase help for people in need. As an example, shooters in school are often white kids getting bullied, who snap. Did we end bullying? Do we make documentaries on who bullied them? No, we further pile upon the hate towards the people who snap (hard to do otherwise). It ensures that the next guy won’t find help against his bullies, and this beautiful circle continues… I say beautiful because, to abstain from finding solutions, there has to be people who find this beautiful. Anyway. If social help went to everyone, and if everyone were considered as important parts of the society, people wouldn’t snap that much.

okeuro49 5y ago
> To me, helping others is the core of leftism People on the right wing also want to help others, but the method is different: helping people to help themselves. I think there are risks to both. People can become dependent on safety nets. People can also need more help than just "pull yourself up by your bootstraps". > I say beautiful because, to abstain from finding solutions, there has to be people who find this beautiful. From an outside perspective, shootings are an intractable US problem because of the US's relationship with guns. It's not that people are "abstaining" because they somehow like the situation.
- JackMorgan 5y ago
  To play devil's advocate and be only a little cheeky, it seems the way the right of recent American politics tries to help people help themselves is to offer them military-grade weaponry, deregulated environmental protections, laws to enforce sexual and vice Christian-specific rules not widely agreed on by non-Christians, and decreased worker protections. This seems almost perfectly calculated to help them become criminals or wage slaves to modern robber barons. The people most served by the modern right are the robber barons themselves (except for the weapons part). If I was a robber baron the last thing I'd want is all my workers watching their livelihoods disappear to all have automatic weapons. I think this is why so much messaging goes to convince people that their worsening situation is because LGBTQ+ or immigrants exist and God is punishing them for the "wickedness of the land." I myself very much would prefer a model that helps people help themselves, but I am unclear what policies would achieve that goal that aren't already supported by the left. Many Americans don't want hand outs, they want dignity and a good job that pays them a thriving wage. However, they also will vote against policies that enforce a fair wage, because it's coming from the mouths of "sinners" who for all they know are causing this via "wickedness." The left can be very condescending and is large enough to have lots of people who similarly think that lack of ideological purity is the cause of the nation's issues, only the ideology is not completely agreed on by any of followers, so it's always shifting, which gives the impression that it's less serious and is very easy to mock. There's a lot about making places safer, which runs counter to how many Americans want to see themselves: they don't want places to be safer, they want to be tougher individuals, so such attempts feel weak to them. As someone who's studied the Bible far more than average (I read New Treatment Greek and went to seminary for a bit), I feel like there is _very_ little thought about sins like pride, hatefulness, and gluttony in the modern church, so it's only a partial truth according to the Bible. Describing the classic "fruits of the Spirit" does not sound anything like the modern Right: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, and self-control. It seems a situation where the messaging has just enough Christian ethics to resemble some of what one would hear from church leadership, but without the inward reflection required of most of the New Testament. It's very Old Testament with messaging that implies "it's these sinners among you who are the problem and need to be stopped or killed." The New Testament would instead lead someone to conclude that if they are being punished it is from their own personal sin. This is enforced with lessons like "let he without sin cast the first stone." I really diverged a bit here, but I've been thinking a lot about the situation of politics. The right cannot be understood without understanding how much of that worldview is shaped by religion, but also that it really isn't a Christian worldview, it's an Old Testament worldview. Too many people crave "righteous" wrath against sinners, not humble admission that all are sinners all the time, and we all need grace and forgiveness not a murderous rampage. As it pertains to policies, I'm not sure how to even start to deescalate the situation. But attempting to do so without understanding the worldviews involved will never work.

Aengeuad 5y ago

The way gun suppressors work in movies and TV is complete fiction, in real life suppressors can attenuate gun shots by maybe 15-35 dB SPL at best. 140 dB SPL is the threshold at which sound causes pain, 120 dB SPL is the threshold that risks instantaneous noise-induced hearing loss, and most rifles and handguns using standard ammunition are in the 140-170 dB SPL range. Even with a suppressor the volume a typical gun produces is enough to be painful and to cause permanent hearing loss if no additional hearing protection is used. In the typical best case scenario using an extremely underpowered subsonic .22LR round with a suppressor a gun shot will still be in the 120 dB SPL range, and for reference, hunting even small muntjac deer with a .22LR would be considered inhumane and in many parts of the world (including many American states) it is illegal to do so. It is a round intended to shoot rodents and birds. I realise this comment is a nitpick but it's something that needs to be brought up any time suppressors are brought up. The only relevance suppressors have on the gun control argument is that their use and sale means that gun operators have less risk of suffering from hearing loss (especially when shooting indoors in a range) and people living near shooting ranges are less likely to complain about noise, i.e., there's no public safety argument here, it's purely ideological, and that's fine if it's what you're going for but it's not a compelling argument or one that holds up to scrutiny. As a point of comparison, there's very little controversy over suppressors in Europe and typically no additional regulations are placed on their ownership beyond the regulations necessary to own the guns that they're used with.

s5300 5y ago
No, you can get literal Hollywood quiet with suppressors. If you’ve never gotten to experience that, sorry I guess haha. A Kel-Tec CP33 or Ruger MKIV with various forms of attached suppressors or integrated suppressors shooting CCI subsonic .22 is Hollywood quiet. Less noise than a BB gun. There are various other calibers that can get pretty damn close to as quiet as those as well. For your traditional military calibers across the globe - yes, they’re still pretty damn loud suppressed. I think .50 bmg or Lapua suppressed is still as loud as 7.62x39 unsuppressed. But to say you can’t get Hollywood quiet is simply incorrect, and there’s still a factor of louder calibers pitch being changed to something that a person not in the immediate vicinity could confuse as construction instead of gunfire. As much as I personally enjoy suppressors… I do have issue with the fact anybody can get their hands on one next day. Just work for a gun range in any mid sized town for two weeks and your honest thoughts about just about literally anybody being able to obtain a firearm will likely change. People are fucking dumb man.

kingcharles 5y ago

Can confirm that fully automatic AR-15 is effect against both rats and mice.