4 ms·

It is not a problem. It just is how humans function. So act accordingly. Trying to change how humans work is a waste of times. You are fighting millions of year

It is not a problem. It just is how humans function. So act accordingly. Trying to change how humans work is a waste of times. You are fighting millions of years of evolution. Good luck with that. Try not to be bitter when you fail.

wpietri 5y ago
That is one of those evo-psych just-so stories. American corporate culture in the late 20th/early 21st century is not representative of all humans at all times. I get that it's the dominant experience for you, but please don't confuse that with some sort of deep evolutionary imperative. One of the things that distinguishes humans as a species is how extremely social, how extremely cooperative we are. See, for example, E. O. Wilson's "The Social Conquest of the Earth" for more on where we fit in evolutionarily.
- mbrodersen 5y ago
  I agree with most of what you are saying. Groups cooperate internally and go to war with other groups externally. However that has nothing to do with my point. I am basically making an economic statement about how modern companies work.
  - wpietri 5y ago
    No, you made a claim about "how humans function" over "millions of years of evolution". I guess you're abandoning that claim now? If so, maybe do it honestly.
    - alsetmusic 5y ago
      > I guess you're abandoning that claim now? If so, maybe do it honestly. This is unnecessarily aggressive. Also, it’s not fun reading a thread dominated by one or more people who are combative.
    - mbrodersen 5y ago
      No not at all. My comment was a reply to your argument: > One of the things that distinguishes humans as a species is how extremely social, how extremely cooperative we are Where I point out that what you are saying is not true in general. But it is true within a group (say a company) and not between groups (say between companies and OSS maintainers). Groups that corporate well within the group have an evolutionary advantage fighting other groups. However I am not sure what the point is you are trying to make? My original point is that corporations/people don't throw $ at OSS maintainers for the work they do and expect them to maintain it for $0. That's a clear objective fact. So either treat your OSS project as a business and get paid to do your work or accept that outcome and stop complaining.
      - wpietri 5y ago
        Again, you made a claim about the evolved nature of humanity. It seems like you can't back it up. Bluster all you want, but if you can't come up with actual citations, I think we're done here.
        mbrodersen 5y ago
        There are a huge number of references online. Just Google “in group out group social evolution”. Or simply go to Wikipedia for a quick summary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-group_and_out-group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-group_and_out-group Now I think we are done here.

wpietri 5y ago

That is one of those evo-psych just-so stories. American corporate culture in the late 20th/early 21st century is not representative of all humans at all times. I get that it's the dominant experience for you, but please don't confuse that with some sort of deep evolutionary imperative. One of the things that distinguishes humans as a species is how extremely social, how extremely cooperative we are. See, for example, E. O. Wilson's "The Social Conquest of the Earth" for more on where we fit in evolutionarily.

mbrodersen 5y ago
I agree with most of what you are saying. Groups cooperate internally and go to war with other groups externally. However that has nothing to do with my point. I am basically making an economic statement about how modern companies work.
- wpietri 5y ago
  No, you made a claim about "how humans function" over "millions of years of evolution". I guess you're abandoning that claim now? If so, maybe do it honestly.
  - alsetmusic 5y ago
    > I guess you're abandoning that claim now? If so, maybe do it honestly. This is unnecessarily aggressive. Also, it’s not fun reading a thread dominated by one or more people who are combative.
  - mbrodersen 5y ago
    No not at all. My comment was a reply to your argument: > One of the things that distinguishes humans as a species is how extremely social, how extremely cooperative we are Where I point out that what you are saying is not true in general. But it is true within a group (say a company) and not between groups (say between companies and OSS maintainers). Groups that corporate well within the group have an evolutionary advantage fighting other groups. However I am not sure what the point is you are trying to make? My original point is that corporations/people don't throw $ at OSS maintainers for the work they do and expect them to maintain it for $0. That's a clear objective fact. So either treat your OSS project as a business and get paid to do your work or accept that outcome and stop complaining.
    - wpietri 5y ago
      Again, you made a claim about the evolved nature of humanity. It seems like you can't back it up. Bluster all you want, but if you can't come up with actual citations, I think we're done here.
      - mbrodersen 5y ago
        There are a huge number of references online. Just Google “in group out group social evolution”. Or simply go to Wikipedia for a quick summary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-group_and_out-group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-group_and_out-group Now I think we are done here.