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I've never understood the fascination with these narratives. Many of my relatives are adamant about China's dynastic streak. Also, the idea that different langu

I've never understood the fascination with these narratives. Many of my relatives are adamant about China's dynastic streak. Also, the idea that different languages are dialects of Mandarin, when in truth many of them, like Cantonese, developed earlier or in parallel.

yourapostasy 5y ago
It serves the interests of a political elite to promulgate a feeling of great utility to them that “we’ve always been here, we are ever-present now, and there is no reason to suspect we will always exist into the future”. It serves to bolster legitimacy assertions upon geographic locales, based upon “ancient claims” or at least “claims older than yours”. This continuous-unbroken-culture-thousands-of-years-old notion I find peculiarly culturally specific. It is an amalgamation made up of Confucian respect-to-elders and venerate-the-dead I don’t agree with when the venerate-the-dead aspect comes at the expense of those living in the geographic locale, and those at the top peculiarly benefit in their pocketbooks to enforce this “ancient tradition”. The US and indeed most major nation states also use this kind of myth making as well, this kind of behavior isn’t specific to China. It’s just not taught in schools.
pphysch 5y ago
Colonial Europeans tend to be obsessed with race -- historically it's how they rationalize imperialism and expansionism -- and may project that obsession on other groups that don't even think about race.
- LAC-Tech 5y ago
  Do you think that's unique to Europeans, or do you think other imperialist and expansionist peoples rationalized things in a different way? Would love to see some comparisons here.
- another_story 5y ago
  Let me clarify, my relatives are Mainland Chinese.
juxtapose 5y ago
> the idea that different languages are dialects of Mandarin I believe most Chinese do think Mandarin and Cantonese are parallel and won't consider Cantonese a dialect of Mandarin. It's better to put it this way: both Mandarin and Cantonese (and many others) are "dialects" of a fictional, idealized language "Chinese". Hence, "dialect" here might be an incorrect translation of "fangyan", which literally just means "regional language".

yourapostasy 5y ago

It serves the interests of a political elite to promulgate a feeling of great utility to them that “we’ve always been here, we are ever-present now, and there is no reason to suspect we will always exist into the future”. It serves to bolster legitimacy assertions upon geographic locales, based upon “ancient claims” or at least “claims older than yours”. This continuous-unbroken-culture-thousands-of-years-old notion I find peculiarly culturally specific. It is an amalgamation made up of Confucian respect-to-elders and venerate-the-dead I don’t agree with when the venerate-the-dead aspect comes at the expense of those living in the geographic locale, and those at the top peculiarly benefit in their pocketbooks to enforce this “ancient tradition”. The US and indeed most major nation states also use this kind of myth making as well, this kind of behavior isn’t specific to China. It’s just not taught in schools.

pphysch 5y ago

Colonial Europeans tend to be obsessed with race -- historically it's how they rationalize imperialism and expansionism -- and may project that obsession on other groups that don't even think about race.

LAC-Tech 5y ago
Do you think that's unique to Europeans, or do you think other imperialist and expansionist peoples rationalized things in a different way? Would love to see some comparisons here.
another_story 5y ago
Let me clarify, my relatives are Mainland Chinese.

juxtapose 5y ago

> the idea that different languages are dialects of Mandarin I believe most Chinese do think Mandarin and Cantonese are parallel and won't consider Cantonese a dialect of Mandarin. It's better to put it this way: both Mandarin and Cantonese (and many others) are "dialects" of a fictional, idealized language "Chinese". Hence, "dialect" here might be an incorrect translation of "fangyan", which literally just means "regional language".