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And not just less waste than fossil fuels, it's less waste than what solar panels, batteries and wind turbines produce. A lot of which can't be recycled and end

And not just less waste than fossil fuels, it's less waste than what solar panels, batteries and wind turbines produce. A lot of which can't be recycled and ends up in landfill. For perspective, one person's lifetime nuclear waste would fit in a Coke can. https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=125740818 https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=125740...

pfdietz 5y ago
Equating (per unit weight) fission reactor waste and waste from PV or wind is a bold position.
- betwixthewires 5y ago
  And equating fossil fuel waste with fission reactor waste is not?
  - pfdietz 5y ago
    If the only alternative to fission was fossil fuels, you'd be making a point. Also, the person I was responding to was comparing nuclear waste to waste from renewables and batteries.
    - betwixthewires 5y ago
      That waste is pretty bad too. Maybe not on par with fission reactor waste, but definitely up there with fossil fuel waste.
      - pfdietz 5y ago
        Not at all. Renewable waste is vastly better than fossil fuel waste. Remember, the latter includes CO2, the most intractable waste problem we have. Most physical waste from renewables is simple stuff like steel, aluminum, and glass. These are all recyclable, and (more to the point) they will be a small fraction of the same materials produced in the rest of industrial society. If we can deal with the non-energy-related waste from industrial society (and we must, if we are to have an industrial society at all, even a nuclear-powered one), we can deal with the waste from a renewable system to power that society.
- littlestymaar 5y ago
  > Equating (per unit weight) You don't need to equate it per unit weight for GP's point to be relevant: there are several orders of magnitude less fission waste than waste from PV or Wind. The entire volume of the dangerous wastes produced by the French nuclear park during its whole life (40 years) can fit in an Olympic swimming pool! (3 200m³). Of course there are other wastes (up to 4 million cubic meters by the French definition of a nuclear waste, which includes every piece of gravel from a nuclear plant: the walls of my wife's office will one day be considered as “Nuclear waste” by the French authority), but the most dangerous of those isn't specific to nuclear: it's asbestos!
  - throw0101a 5y ago
    Here's a picture: * https://twitter.com/Orano_usa/status/1182662569619795968 https://twitter.com/Orano_usa/status/1182662569619795968
    - littlestymaar 5y ago
      Thanks! I've seen it before and I wanted it to illustrate my point but was unable to google it effectively!
  - pfdietz 5y ago
    The point was that while nuclear waste is physically small, it is many orders of magnitude more dangerous per unit mass. The number to look at is "water dilution volume" -- how much water would some waste need to be diluted in to bring it down to regulatory limits. For spent fuel 1 year out of a reactor, the waste from 1 GW(e)-year would need to be diluted in something like 3 trillion tonnes of water to reach regulatory limits. This is dominated by soluble species like Cs and Sr.
trembonator 5y ago
Nuclear waste can be reprocessed, reused. Everyone’s upset over Fukushima and the unknowns of Chernobyl. But it’s emission-free energy when used properly.

pfdietz 5y ago

Equating (per unit weight) fission reactor waste and waste from PV or wind is a bold position.

betwixthewires 5y ago
And equating fossil fuel waste with fission reactor waste is not?
- pfdietz 5y ago
  If the only alternative to fission was fossil fuels, you'd be making a point. Also, the person I was responding to was comparing nuclear waste to waste from renewables and batteries.
  - betwixthewires 5y ago
    That waste is pretty bad too. Maybe not on par with fission reactor waste, but definitely up there with fossil fuel waste.
    - pfdietz 5y ago
      Not at all. Renewable waste is vastly better than fossil fuel waste. Remember, the latter includes CO2, the most intractable waste problem we have. Most physical waste from renewables is simple stuff like steel, aluminum, and glass. These are all recyclable, and (more to the point) they will be a small fraction of the same materials produced in the rest of industrial society. If we can deal with the non-energy-related waste from industrial society (and we must, if we are to have an industrial society at all, even a nuclear-powered one), we can deal with the waste from a renewable system to power that society.
littlestymaar 5y ago
> Equating (per unit weight) You don't need to equate it per unit weight for GP's point to be relevant: there are several orders of magnitude less fission waste than waste from PV or Wind. The entire volume of the dangerous wastes produced by the French nuclear park during its whole life (40 years) can fit in an Olympic swimming pool! (3 200m³). Of course there are other wastes (up to 4 million cubic meters by the French definition of a nuclear waste, which includes every piece of gravel from a nuclear plant: the walls of my wife's office will one day be considered as “Nuclear waste” by the French authority), but the most dangerous of those isn't specific to nuclear: it's asbestos!
- throw0101a 5y ago
  Here's a picture: * https://twitter.com/Orano_usa/status/1182662569619795968 https://twitter.com/Orano_usa/status/1182662569619795968
  - littlestymaar 5y ago
    Thanks! I've seen it before and I wanted it to illustrate my point but was unable to google it effectively!
- pfdietz 5y ago
  The point was that while nuclear waste is physically small, it is many orders of magnitude more dangerous per unit mass. The number to look at is "water dilution volume" -- how much water would some waste need to be diluted in to bring it down to regulatory limits. For spent fuel 1 year out of a reactor, the waste from 1 GW(e)-year would need to be diluted in something like 3 trillion tonnes of water to reach regulatory limits. This is dominated by soluble species like Cs and Sr.

trembonator 5y ago

Nuclear waste can be reprocessed, reused. Everyone’s upset over Fukushima and the unknowns of Chernobyl. But it’s emission-free energy when used properly.