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Still seems to be it could be mostly conditioning. It's essentially a two-part stimulous to provoke a response. Also many animals can problem-solve up to a poi

Still seems to be it could be mostly conditioning. It's essentially a two-part stimulous to provoke a response. Also many animals can problem-solve up to a point, even use tools, but that is not what "self aware" means to me. Self-awareness is more being able to think of yourself in the abstract, behave in consideration of how others may see you, etc.

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nathias 5y ago
yes, but we can't know if they are so we have to speculate based on behavior and other cognitive functions that we associate with self-awareness.
- number6 5y ago
  Crows or humans?
  - nathias 5y ago
    yes
xg15 5y ago
What I don't quite understand is why the "null hypothesis" here is frequently assumed to be "crows are not self-aware". We have no idea how prevalent self-awareness in the animal kingdom actually is, so shouldn't it rather be "we don't know whether crows are self-aware or not"?
- matt-attack 5y ago
  The funny thing is we have no way of knowing that any other human (other than yourself) is self aware. This is why the study of consciousness is so difficult. We each clearly know that we are having a subjective experience, but we have no way of knowing that any one (or anything) else is. I kind of sympathize with the hypothesis that simply all matter has some degree of self consciousness.
  - emteycz 5y ago
    Hmm, TBH I think that is pop-science (wrong) take... Humans can stop being self aware and we can measure that very easily. There are many different degrees of self-awareness damage, and many of them are precisely codified.
    - leonry 5y ago
      The problem of other minds is very much a serious problem in philosophy, cf. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/other-minds/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/other-minds/
      - netizen-936824 5y ago
        Philosophy itself is a problem because it seems to be allergic to evidence. Look elsewhere for information concerning the mind, brains, and neurochemistry
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
jcelerier 5y ago
Are you yourself even self-aware or just conditioned into believing in your own self-awareness ?

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nathias 5y ago

yes, but we can't know if they are so we have to speculate based on behavior and other cognitive functions that we associate with self-awareness.

number6 5y ago
Crows or humans?
- nathias 5y ago
  yes

xg15 5y ago

What I don't quite understand is why the "null hypothesis" here is frequently assumed to be "crows are not self-aware". We have no idea how prevalent self-awareness in the animal kingdom actually is, so shouldn't it rather be "we don't know whether crows are self-aware or not"?

matt-attack 5y ago
The funny thing is we have no way of knowing that any other human (other than yourself) is self aware. This is why the study of consciousness is so difficult. We each clearly know that we are having a subjective experience, but we have no way of knowing that any one (or anything) else is. I kind of sympathize with the hypothesis that simply all matter has some degree of self consciousness.
- emteycz 5y ago
  Hmm, TBH I think that is pop-science (wrong) take... Humans can stop being self aware and we can measure that very easily. There are many different degrees of self-awareness damage, and many of them are precisely codified.
  - leonry 5y ago
    The problem of other minds is very much a serious problem in philosophy, cf. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/other-minds/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/other-minds/
    - netizen-936824 5y ago
      Philosophy itself is a problem because it seems to be allergic to evidence. Look elsewhere for information concerning the mind, brains, and neurochemistry
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]

jcelerier 5y ago

Are you yourself even self-aware or just conditioned into believing in your own self-awareness ?