6 ms·

Is it too early to conclude whether booster effectiveness will also wane in 6 months? I had some mild but persistent side effects from the second Pfizer dose (

by avalys 5y ago

Is it too early to conclude whether booster effectiveness will also wane in 6 months? I had some mild but persistent side effects from the second Pfizer dose (ear ringing and Eustachian tube dysfunction). It's gotten about 98% better - but not 100% - and I'm a bit nervous about the booster given that many people are reporting the side effects are somewhat more intense than the second shot. If the booster is the final answer, maybe I'll take the risk. Not sure what I'll do though, if the new status quo is a booster required every 6 months, and you become a pariah in polite society if you're not "fully vaccinated"...

jbd28 5y ago
Data is showing T cell response is great from 2 doses so you won’t be a burden on the hospital. Looking like cases will diverge from hospitalizations soon and vaccinations will move to flu-like in “strongly encouraged and taken up by the responsible”
ed25519FUUU 5y ago
I’m in a similar boat and I hate it. I did both vaccines and I’m otherwise healthy, very low risk of hospitalization or death. My workplace has said vaccination is a requirement (even though I’m remote!) and I think boosters will be part of that. I don’t want to file a religious or medical exemption because I don’t have one. I want to file a “I shouldn’t have to do this” exemption.
- hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
  Two things I'm honestly curious about in your response: 1. I understand getting the vaccine is unpleasant (personally I was knocked out for 36 hours after the second dose with a high fever and body aches), but the linked study showed that the booster lowered chances of death by 90%. Yes, things like age and underlying health have a big impact, but many seemingly healthy people have either died or been hospitalized from that. Forgetting about mandates for a moment, on a personal level, why wouldn't you want to get something that showed such high efficacy against death and hospitalization that had such a low, temporally finite cost? 2. Just wanted to comment that I do agree that employer-initiated mandates make no sense to me if you are fully remote. Sure, restrictions on coming into an office unless you've been vaccinated make total sense to me, but mandating for remote employees makes no sense from the perspective of the reality of how the virus is transmitted.
  - disruptalot 5y ago
    > why wouldn't you want to get something that showed such high efficacy against death and hospitalization that had such a low, temporally finite cost? Because they've already determined that their current health is already highly effective at keeping them out of hospital and death. So you want them decrease their risk from 0.2% to 0.1% and in exchange expose them to a vaccine that's: - Expires in a few months - They've already had a history of reacting to (further shots always worse) - No one takes liability for - Relatively has higher risk of side effects among their profile - Unknown long term risk It doesn't seem like a good deal
    - newsbinator 5y ago
      All valid points except the last one. Unknown long term risk is silly because Covid and Omicron specifically also come with unknown long term risk.
      - disruptalot 5y ago
        I wish there was a more concerted effort on following up on both covid patients and vaccine administrations and presenting the data on the outcomes in the general media. Instead, the only widely decimated message is "get your vaccine".
    - hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
      Taking your points 1-by-1: > So you want them decrease their risk from 0.2% to 0.1% The linked study said those that had gotten a booster had 10% of the risk of those that didn't, so using your first number it would be like 0.2% to 0.02%. > Expires in a few months It's unknown how long the booster would last, or if after the booster the recommendation would be to move to something annual like flu shots. > They've already had a history of reacting to (further shots always worse) The person I responded to didn't say what their reaction was, or if it was time limited. Also, "further shots always worse" is demonstrably false, I know a couple people who had bad (yet, again very short term) side effects with the second dose and barely anything for the booster. > No one takes liability for The US government specifically runs a National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/index.html https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/index.html > Relatively has higher risk of side effects among their profile The person I responded to didn't mention this > Unknown long term risk Vs. the now well-known long-term risks of contracting Covid, which given its prevalence seems highly likely that your long term choices are (a) never leave your house, (b) reduce likelihood and severity of infection with a vaccine, or (c) get Covid.
- TechBro8615 5y ago
  Do the moral thing and quit. Don’t let someone coerce your into a decision you don’t feel is right for yourself.
mrtksn 5y ago
Maybe you can consider another vaccine as a booster if this one did not acted well on you? I don't see how the booster is guaranteed to be the final answer as the virus keeps mutating and spreading among the very large unvaccinated population. I personally think that it will become endemic, thanks to the vaccine we would have enough immunity to keep us out of hospital and each time we get the virus it would act as a booster. This thing is not going to end without something like world wide super strict lockdown(Wuhan style) or world wide vaccination(and probably some combinations as the vaccine itself reduces but doesn't completely stop the spread).
- jimmyearlcarter 5y ago
  Its actually the 'leaky' vaccine that is causing the problematic mutations. In the same sense that bacteria mutate to evade antibiotics, the virus mutates to evade the vaccine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwPKnOhJRYg&list=PL2FOgJ3tfGaYDmiIq8zYO4AGrGiSYj6e-&index=1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwPKnOhJRYg&list=PL2FOgJ3tfG...
  - dimgl 5y ago
    Your source is a random YouTube video? AFAIK viruses are nothing like bacteria…
    - mrtksn 5y ago
      It’s not exactly random, it includes Robert Melone who is early researcher in the mRNA technology who was part of a team that got some patents but he likes to call himself the inventor of everything mRNA. So the guy somehow got bitter with the people involved and turned it into media battle. He tries to portray himself as an insider who is not afraid or has higher morals to tell the truth about mRNA. He says stuff like “This research shows that virus spike proteins damage the heart, the vaccine produces spike proteins therefore vaccines are dangerous”. Doesn’t have any actual research on his claims, he simply invents things from thin air and says them from the position of inventor of the mRNA. Very popular guy in the antivaxx community.
ulnarkressty 5y ago
Same here, no vertigo before in my life - had it for both doses, longer the second time, still not 100% recovered. I even voluntarily filled in my info on the Pfizer side-effects page, but didn't hear anything back. Did you manage to find out what exactly goes wrong with the inner ear after the vaccine? Still, regarding the study, it appears that taking the booster would be the better choice, considering most of us will catch the omicron variant at some point.
- sharken 5y ago
  The vertigo effect you describe, was that right after each dose, or at a later point. It would be interesting to know more about this side effect.
  - ulnarkressty 5y ago
    It was 6 days after each of the doses. I posted my story on the VEDA forum's COVID side-effects post[0], which is now a whopping 800 pages long. The good news is that some literature is starting to appear on this topic[1], but I'm afraid that these kinds of side effects will be seen as noise in the grand scheme of things. [0] https://vestibular.org/forum/dizziness/covid-19-vaccine-side-effects/ https://vestibular.org/forum/dizziness/covid-19-vaccine-side... [1] https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/01455613211048975?icid=int.sj-full-text.samecollection-articles.2 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/01455613211048975?i...
- avalys 5y ago
  I filled out a VAERS report and never heard from anyone about it. Unfortunately I haven't learned anything interesting about what the mechanism of action might be. Especially with respect to the most interesting question - does this reaction to the vaccine mean I might have had an even worse reaction to a COVID infection? There are plenty of people who report tinnitus following COVID.
tguvot 5y ago
antibody levels after booster are much higher compared to after second shot. there is a chance that it will last longer
sterlind 5y ago
Countering this anecdata with my own: I have several rare diseases and I'm quite disabled. I didn't get noticeable effects from my first two Pfizer doses (at least nothing I could distinguish from my chronic illness), while the third gave me flu-like symptoms for 2-3 days. I was happy about this because it told me it was working, and I returned to my (crappy) baseline afterwards with no lingering effects. I wonder if you just happened to get ear ringing coincidentally around the time you got your second dose, and connected the dots even though it might not be causally related.
- ohCh6zos 5y ago
  I'm sorry to hear it was flu-like for you. I'm in the same boat, and it was flu like for me too.

by avalys 5y ago

jbd28 5y ago

Data is showing T cell response is great from 2 doses so you won’t be a burden on the hospital. Looking like cases will diverge from hospitalizations soon and vaccinations will move to flu-like in “strongly encouraged and taken up by the responsible”

ed25519FUUU 5y ago

I’m in a similar boat and I hate it. I did both vaccines and I’m otherwise healthy, very low risk of hospitalization or death. My workplace has said vaccination is a requirement (even though I’m remote!) and I think boosters will be part of that. I don’t want to file a religious or medical exemption because I don’t have one. I want to file a “I shouldn’t have to do this” exemption.

hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
Two things I'm honestly curious about in your response: 1. I understand getting the vaccine is unpleasant (personally I was knocked out for 36 hours after the second dose with a high fever and body aches), but the linked study showed that the booster lowered chances of death by 90%. Yes, things like age and underlying health have a big impact, but many seemingly healthy people have either died or been hospitalized from that. Forgetting about mandates for a moment, on a personal level, why wouldn't you want to get something that showed such high efficacy against death and hospitalization that had such a low, temporally finite cost? 2. Just wanted to comment that I do agree that employer-initiated mandates make no sense to me if you are fully remote. Sure, restrictions on coming into an office unless you've been vaccinated make total sense to me, but mandating for remote employees makes no sense from the perspective of the reality of how the virus is transmitted.
- disruptalot 5y ago
  > why wouldn't you want to get something that showed such high efficacy against death and hospitalization that had such a low, temporally finite cost? Because they've already determined that their current health is already highly effective at keeping them out of hospital and death. So you want them decrease their risk from 0.2% to 0.1% and in exchange expose them to a vaccine that's: - Expires in a few months - They've already had a history of reacting to (further shots always worse) - No one takes liability for - Relatively has higher risk of side effects among their profile - Unknown long term risk It doesn't seem like a good deal
  - newsbinator 5y ago
    All valid points except the last one. Unknown long term risk is silly because Covid and Omicron specifically also come with unknown long term risk.
    - disruptalot 5y ago
      I wish there was a more concerted effort on following up on both covid patients and vaccine administrations and presenting the data on the outcomes in the general media. Instead, the only widely decimated message is "get your vaccine".
  - hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
    Taking your points 1-by-1: > So you want them decrease their risk from 0.2% to 0.1% The linked study said those that had gotten a booster had 10% of the risk of those that didn't, so using your first number it would be like 0.2% to 0.02%. > Expires in a few months It's unknown how long the booster would last, or if after the booster the recommendation would be to move to something annual like flu shots. > They've already had a history of reacting to (further shots always worse) The person I responded to didn't say what their reaction was, or if it was time limited. Also, "further shots always worse" is demonstrably false, I know a couple people who had bad (yet, again very short term) side effects with the second dose and barely anything for the booster. > No one takes liability for The US government specifically runs a National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/index.html https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/index.html > Relatively has higher risk of side effects among their profile The person I responded to didn't mention this > Unknown long term risk Vs. the now well-known long-term risks of contracting Covid, which given its prevalence seems highly likely that your long term choices are (a) never leave your house, (b) reduce likelihood and severity of infection with a vaccine, or (c) get Covid.
TechBro8615 5y ago
Do the moral thing and quit. Don’t let someone coerce your into a decision you don’t feel is right for yourself.

mrtksn 5y ago

Maybe you can consider another vaccine as a booster if this one did not acted well on you? I don't see how the booster is guaranteed to be the final answer as the virus keeps mutating and spreading among the very large unvaccinated population. I personally think that it will become endemic, thanks to the vaccine we would have enough immunity to keep us out of hospital and each time we get the virus it would act as a booster. This thing is not going to end without something like world wide super strict lockdown(Wuhan style) or world wide vaccination(and probably some combinations as the vaccine itself reduces but doesn't completely stop the spread).

jimmyearlcarter 5y ago
Its actually the 'leaky' vaccine that is causing the problematic mutations. In the same sense that bacteria mutate to evade antibiotics, the virus mutates to evade the vaccine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwPKnOhJRYg&list=PL2FOgJ3tfGaYDmiIq8zYO4AGrGiSYj6e-&index=1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwPKnOhJRYg&list=PL2FOgJ3tfG...
- dimgl 5y ago
  Your source is a random YouTube video? AFAIK viruses are nothing like bacteria…
  - mrtksn 5y ago
    It’s not exactly random, it includes Robert Melone who is early researcher in the mRNA technology who was part of a team that got some patents but he likes to call himself the inventor of everything mRNA. So the guy somehow got bitter with the people involved and turned it into media battle. He tries to portray himself as an insider who is not afraid or has higher morals to tell the truth about mRNA. He says stuff like “This research shows that virus spike proteins damage the heart, the vaccine produces spike proteins therefore vaccines are dangerous”. Doesn’t have any actual research on his claims, he simply invents things from thin air and says them from the position of inventor of the mRNA. Very popular guy in the antivaxx community.

ulnarkressty 5y ago

Same here, no vertigo before in my life - had it for both doses, longer the second time, still not 100% recovered. I even voluntarily filled in my info on the Pfizer side-effects page, but didn't hear anything back. Did you manage to find out what exactly goes wrong with the inner ear after the vaccine? Still, regarding the study, it appears that taking the booster would be the better choice, considering most of us will catch the omicron variant at some point.

sharken 5y ago
The vertigo effect you describe, was that right after each dose, or at a later point. It would be interesting to know more about this side effect.
- ulnarkressty 5y ago
  It was 6 days after each of the doses. I posted my story on the VEDA forum's COVID side-effects post[0], which is now a whopping 800 pages long. The good news is that some literature is starting to appear on this topic[1], but I'm afraid that these kinds of side effects will be seen as noise in the grand scheme of things. [0] https://vestibular.org/forum/dizziness/covid-19-vaccine-side-effects/ https://vestibular.org/forum/dizziness/covid-19-vaccine-side... [1] https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/01455613211048975?icid=int.sj-full-text.samecollection-articles.2 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/01455613211048975?i...
avalys 5y ago
I filled out a VAERS report and never heard from anyone about it. Unfortunately I haven't learned anything interesting about what the mechanism of action might be. Especially with respect to the most interesting question - does this reaction to the vaccine mean I might have had an even worse reaction to a COVID infection? There are plenty of people who report tinnitus following COVID.

tguvot 5y ago

antibody levels after booster are much higher compared to after second shot. there is a chance that it will last longer

sterlind 5y ago

Countering this anecdata with my own: I have several rare diseases and I'm quite disabled. I didn't get noticeable effects from my first two Pfizer doses (at least nothing I could distinguish from my chronic illness), while the third gave me flu-like symptoms for 2-3 days. I was happy about this because it told me it was working, and I returned to my (crappy) baseline afterwards with no lingering effects. I wonder if you just happened to get ear ringing coincidentally around the time you got your second dose, and connected the dots even though it might not be causally related.

ohCh6zos 5y ago
I'm sorry to hear it was flu-like for you. I'm in the same boat, and it was flu like for me too.