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What _would_ joining the union mean for employees? Most people in tech are used to differences in pay from person to person, with raises and bonuses allocated

by jrmg 5y ago

What _would_ joining the union mean for employees? Most people in tech are used to differences in pay from person to person, with raises and bonuses allocated yearly (or some other time period) based on a review of the last year’s performance. Would this end, with pay flat across the board?

dagmx 5y ago
Unions don't necessarily mean flat pay. Many unions allow individuals to get pay bumps above the baseline. They usually do mean structured pay brackets so that there's a floor. This prevents exploitation.
danaris 5y ago
Only if that's what their union local decides to negotiate into a new contract with ActiBlizzard. Unions are made up of the workers within them, and especially new ones are there to represent their members' interests. If their members want flat pay, then they'll push for flat pay. If they want pay based on performance and other metrics, they'll push for that. There's no rulebook for unions that says "Everyone must be paid the same, and terrible workers must be unfireable." This is a negative stereotype of unions—based on some real-world examples, to be sure, but a stereotype all the same—that has been aggressively pushed as anti-union propaganda for decades.
- rsj_hn 5y ago
  > This is a negative stereotype of unions—based on some real-world examples, to be sure, but a stereotype all the same—that has been aggressively pushed as anti-union propaganda for decades. It would be interesting to see examples of unions that aggressively promote performance based pay -- this is a genuine question. I think an objective view would show that the stereotype is broadly accurate, if not 100% accurate. The reason for this is that we live in a world in which 20% of the people do 80% of the work, but only have 20% of the votes. That is why there is an inherent tension between democracy and fair pay. It's true that this has nothing to do with unions per se, except that unions are the ones to be in a position to vote on pay. One could imagine a different situation, say where the number of votes you have is weighted by your salary when the union first forms, and have negotiations be for total labor expenditure rather than individual worker salaries. Then you can still have a union but it would resist the type of equalization forces by which the best people exit for higher pay outside the union, which ends up being a drag on both the union and the company and causes a lot of firms to oppose unions more than they otherwise would.
  - gusgus01 5y ago
    Do we actually live in a world where 20% of people do 80% of the work? Do you have a source for that?
    - rsj_hn 5y ago
      This is known as the "pareto principle" but it was observed long before then. In terms of scientific sources, what sources do you have that everyone makes the same contribution? Of course 80/20 is a rule of thumb, but a small group of people do the bulk of the work in most organizations.
  - TigeriusKirk 5y ago
    Professional sports unions pretty clearly promote performance based pay.
    - rsj_hn 5y ago
      Yes, that's a good example.
ianferrel 5y ago
It depends on what the union negotiates, but most unionized workforces do not have flat pay, so I doubt it. They have pay based (mostly) on seniority, specialization, job title, etc.

by jrmg 5y ago

dagmx 5y ago

Unions don't necessarily mean flat pay. Many unions allow individuals to get pay bumps above the baseline. They usually do mean structured pay brackets so that there's a floor. This prevents exploitation.

danaris 5y ago

Only if that's what their union local decides to negotiate into a new contract with ActiBlizzard. Unions are made up of the workers within them, and especially new ones are there to represent their members' interests. If their members want flat pay, then they'll push for flat pay. If they want pay based on performance and other metrics, they'll push for that. There's no rulebook for unions that says "Everyone must be paid the same, and terrible workers must be unfireable." This is a negative stereotype of unions—based on some real-world examples, to be sure, but a stereotype all the same—that has been aggressively pushed as anti-union propaganda for decades.

rsj_hn 5y ago
> This is a negative stereotype of unions—based on some real-world examples, to be sure, but a stereotype all the same—that has been aggressively pushed as anti-union propaganda for decades. It would be interesting to see examples of unions that aggressively promote performance based pay -- this is a genuine question. I think an objective view would show that the stereotype is broadly accurate, if not 100% accurate. The reason for this is that we live in a world in which 20% of the people do 80% of the work, but only have 20% of the votes. That is why there is an inherent tension between democracy and fair pay. It's true that this has nothing to do with unions per se, except that unions are the ones to be in a position to vote on pay. One could imagine a different situation, say where the number of votes you have is weighted by your salary when the union first forms, and have negotiations be for total labor expenditure rather than individual worker salaries. Then you can still have a union but it would resist the type of equalization forces by which the best people exit for higher pay outside the union, which ends up being a drag on both the union and the company and causes a lot of firms to oppose unions more than they otherwise would.
- gusgus01 5y ago
  Do we actually live in a world where 20% of people do 80% of the work? Do you have a source for that?
  - rsj_hn 5y ago
    This is known as the "pareto principle" but it was observed long before then. In terms of scientific sources, what sources do you have that everyone makes the same contribution? Of course 80/20 is a rule of thumb, but a small group of people do the bulk of the work in most organizations.
- TigeriusKirk 5y ago
  Professional sports unions pretty clearly promote performance based pay.
  - rsj_hn 5y ago
    Yes, that's a good example.

ianferrel 5y ago

It depends on what the union negotiates, but most unionized workforces do not have flat pay, so I doubt it. They have pay based (mostly) on seniority, specialization, job title, etc.