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Crypto is not necessary for micropayments and they have been tried several times already including by Google as well. It’s not a technical problem.

noxer 5y ago
Some kind of crypto IS necessary in the end. Not for the micropayment[1] itself but for funding/withdrawing. If this is done over traditional banking system it excludes half the world with access to the internet + adds fees that go to the bank. If its implemented trough internet mega corps instead of banks they get even more power than they already have + they will take a cut too + they will fight it to ever become a thing because it directly destroys their business model. On top of that comes privacy concerts and all that. It would be horrible. We dont know anything other than crypto that would globally work and isn't controlled by a single authority. https://interledger.org/rfcs/0003-interledger-protocol/ https://interledger.org/rfcs/0003-interledger-protocol/
- manigandham 5y ago
  Crypto isn't a currency so you still need exit nodes to fiat at some point, and these are banks (or exchanges using banks on your behalf). New fintech services like Cashapp, Venmo, Paypal, Sofi, etc have done much more to improve banking access with technology than any crypto so far.
  - noxer 5y ago
    None of these services can do what crypto can and you should not want to use them anyway. They take a cut, screw you over whenever possible, have zero respect for you privacy and personal data, can exclude you from service without due process and basically put you on a no-fly list but without justification or any feasible way to fight it. Every other week these is some HN post about peoples accounts getting suspended, do you want to live in future where this happens to your "wallet"? I know people who can not open a paypal account since 10+ years. There is no way to appeal it. Also within 10 years they will all be bought up by the largest 2-3 players creating another mega corp oligopoly that makes everything worse for everyone. Wait until they exchange their "no-fly lists" and a AI gets to ruin peoples life because of statistically anomalies or something. If you dont want that you should root for crypto even if today crypto is mostly garbage and scams the tech can be used to do better.
el-salvador 5y ago
I'm curious about what Facebook/WhatsApp is doing in Guatemala, right next to El Salvador. They are integrating WhatsApp, the main messaging app, with a stable coin Pax Dollars and Zero fee remittances between U.S. and Guatemala. The countries are next to each other and are similar in many ways. But one difference is that Guatemala, has their own stable local currency (Quetzal/GTQ), and the exchange rate margins charged by banks are the highest from any Central American Country. And also unofficial USD currency exchange can easily cost about 25% of the transaction. WhatsApp is so widespread in Central America that FB has a big potential of doing what El Salvador has attempted to do with Chivo/Bitcoin. This reminds me of the old stories of how Facebook choose which universities to allow sign up from. It was by choosing the universities close to others that had Facebook competitors.
- davidgerard 5y ago
  What they're doing is not actually using the USDP in any manner. The USDP sits in Novi's account in Coinbase Custody. The USDP in the Novi app is just accounting entries in their system. wrote this up here: https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2021/11/02/facebooks-novi-hooks-up-in-guatemala-with-paxos-not-diem-just-in-time-for-the-stablecoin-report/ https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2021/11/02/facebooks-no... I'd be amazed if the new Novi-in-WhatsApp thing didn't work the same way. It's the best possible way to use the blockchain: say "blockchain" in the press release, absolutely do not touch the thing with your system.
  - el-salvador 5y ago
    Hi David! Thank you for sharing that link. I'm a reader of yours and never imagined you replying one of my comments. By the way thank you for the coverage in English you do about my country which summarizes many of the things that are happening here. And specially for reporting about the political context in which all of these is happening. As this is something not covered much by other news outlets. I was curious about Novi/WhatsApp because the potential it has for becoming a new widespread payment method due to the market share of WhatsApp in these countries. Not much about the underlying technology. So many transactions here involve sharing screenshots of bank payments confirmations or photos of bank deposit slips via WhatsApp messages. From small stuff to even loans, that Whatsapp could easily move from sending screenshots to sending payments by adding a "pay" button on their app. If they get the end user experience right, and regulatory approvals which is a bigger challenge by itself. I don't think the end users will think much about the underlying technology.

noxer 5y ago

Some kind of crypto IS necessary in the end. Not for the micropayment[1] itself but for funding/withdrawing. If this is done over traditional banking system it excludes half the world with access to the internet + adds fees that go to the bank. If its implemented trough internet mega corps instead of banks they get even more power than they already have + they will take a cut too + they will fight it to ever become a thing because it directly destroys their business model. On top of that comes privacy concerts and all that. It would be horrible. We dont know anything other than crypto that would globally work and isn't controlled by a single authority. https://interledger.org/rfcs/0003-interledger-protocol/ https://interledger.org/rfcs/0003-interledger-protocol/

manigandham 5y ago
Crypto isn't a currency so you still need exit nodes to fiat at some point, and these are banks (or exchanges using banks on your behalf). New fintech services like Cashapp, Venmo, Paypal, Sofi, etc have done much more to improve banking access with technology than any crypto so far.
- noxer 5y ago
  None of these services can do what crypto can and you should not want to use them anyway. They take a cut, screw you over whenever possible, have zero respect for you privacy and personal data, can exclude you from service without due process and basically put you on a no-fly list but without justification or any feasible way to fight it. Every other week these is some HN post about peoples accounts getting suspended, do you want to live in future where this happens to your "wallet"? I know people who can not open a paypal account since 10+ years. There is no way to appeal it. Also within 10 years they will all be bought up by the largest 2-3 players creating another mega corp oligopoly that makes everything worse for everyone. Wait until they exchange their "no-fly lists" and a AI gets to ruin peoples life because of statistically anomalies or something. If you dont want that you should root for crypto even if today crypto is mostly garbage and scams the tech can be used to do better.

el-salvador 5y ago

I'm curious about what Facebook/WhatsApp is doing in Guatemala, right next to El Salvador. They are integrating WhatsApp, the main messaging app, with a stable coin Pax Dollars and Zero fee remittances between U.S. and Guatemala. The countries are next to each other and are similar in many ways. But one difference is that Guatemala, has their own stable local currency (Quetzal/GTQ), and the exchange rate margins charged by banks are the highest from any Central American Country. And also unofficial USD currency exchange can easily cost about 25% of the transaction. WhatsApp is so widespread in Central America that FB has a big potential of doing what El Salvador has attempted to do with Chivo/Bitcoin. This reminds me of the old stories of how Facebook choose which universities to allow sign up from. It was by choosing the universities close to others that had Facebook competitors.

davidgerard 5y ago
What they're doing is not actually using the USDP in any manner. The USDP sits in Novi's account in Coinbase Custody. The USDP in the Novi app is just accounting entries in their system. wrote this up here: https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2021/11/02/facebooks-novi-hooks-up-in-guatemala-with-paxos-not-diem-just-in-time-for-the-stablecoin-report/ https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2021/11/02/facebooks-no... I'd be amazed if the new Novi-in-WhatsApp thing didn't work the same way. It's the best possible way to use the blockchain: say "blockchain" in the press release, absolutely do not touch the thing with your system.
- el-salvador 5y ago
  Hi David! Thank you for sharing that link. I'm a reader of yours and never imagined you replying one of my comments. By the way thank you for the coverage in English you do about my country which summarizes many of the things that are happening here. And specially for reporting about the political context in which all of these is happening. As this is something not covered much by other news outlets. I was curious about Novi/WhatsApp because the potential it has for becoming a new widespread payment method due to the market share of WhatsApp in these countries. Not much about the underlying technology. So many transactions here involve sharing screenshots of bank payments confirmations or photos of bank deposit slips via WhatsApp messages. From small stuff to even loans, that Whatsapp could easily move from sending screenshots to sending payments by adding a "pay" button on their app. If they get the end user experience right, and regulatory approvals which is a bigger challenge by itself. I don't think the end users will think much about the underlying technology.