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well put. The things you forgot: 1) trolling is also a type of moderation. It will unmake whatever serious effort if 1-2 persons disagree hard enough. 2) sure,

well put. The things you forgot: 1) trolling is also a type of moderation. It will unmake whatever serious effort if 1-2 persons disagree hard enough. 2) sure, there will be facists but those technically seek is the opposite of the platform. 3) however weird or undesirabe some ideologie is we can give it time to come to its senses before we go full retard enforcing our own. if we cant the other idea deserves to win. its how humanity always did its thing. give us enough time and we the people burn everything to the ground and start fresh. its like a fee we must pay. millions have to die for the eventual idiot ruling class to be at least some what replaced by people with interests beyond their own. if the facists won the war our ideas would be the ones that desperately need to be silenced by them. just have the battle royal of weird ideas out in the open. if the muskian forced brain chipians win we do that for a while. it only seems more stupid than say mandatory/forced experimental medication for everyone, putting people in cages for smoking weed, starvation salaries, selling cars that go faster than the speed limit. etc etc maybe everything i wrote here is the best example of a stupid idea? should we investigate or just press delete?

noduerme 5y ago
I mean, on the scale of weirdness is it weird that we sell guns you can't shoot at people, and cars that go faster than the speed limit, while locking people up for inhaling burning weeds? Uh, yeah. The thing is, we did arrive at this set of compromises by something slightly more logical, flexible, and iterable than one group of fanbois just forcibly outnumbering another group of idiots. What millions did die for, in the west, was not a cult leader or a weird set of ideas, but a legal framework. Which, creaky as it is, privileges the right of individuals to be treated as individuals and be innocent until proven guilty. Not perfectly at all. But more individual rights than have ever existed in history, and more than could ever exist under the rule of one depraved ideology or another. What we have, at the moment, is a system that appears to make no sense precisely because it has measures in place to prefer individual rights over ideology. To the extent we have any freedom or happiness at all, it's in contradiction to the ideologies being pushed by people who want to have their turn to rule and rewrite the social contract. A cursory glance at the history of ideological movements shows that western democracy is a total aberration in its ability to hold murderous ideologues slightly at bay. So. A battle royale of weird ideas is great, but only if it's in a ring where everyone leaves their guns outside, and no one's life hangs in the balance. Otherwise it's a bunch of trolls playing dress up with someone else's clothes, burning someone else's stuff, killing someone else's kids; see Stalinism and Nazism. The current generation is lost for knowledge of history, so they don't understand the fire they're playing with every time they think imposing their correct point of view by force is the only way. It's not their fault; their parents were mostly idiots. But they only exist because some people held the fort for an arena where you could debate without existential peril to yourself or the opposite party. The framework is all. The ideas can come and go within it, and lots of seemingly stupid contradictions or compromises will arise, as you pointed out. But if any side is able to overturn the framework, then there will not be a fair battle of ideas ever again.

noduerme 5y ago

I mean, on the scale of weirdness is it weird that we sell guns you can't shoot at people, and cars that go faster than the speed limit, while locking people up for inhaling burning weeds? Uh, yeah. The thing is, we did arrive at this set of compromises by something slightly more logical, flexible, and iterable than one group of fanbois just forcibly outnumbering another group of idiots. What millions did die for, in the west, was not a cult leader or a weird set of ideas, but a legal framework. Which, creaky as it is, privileges the right of individuals to be treated as individuals and be innocent until proven guilty. Not perfectly at all. But more individual rights than have ever existed in history, and more than could ever exist under the rule of one depraved ideology or another. What we have, at the moment, is a system that appears to make no sense precisely because it has measures in place to prefer individual rights over ideology. To the extent we have any freedom or happiness at all, it's in contradiction to the ideologies being pushed by people who want to have their turn to rule and rewrite the social contract. A cursory glance at the history of ideological movements shows that western democracy is a total aberration in its ability to hold murderous ideologues slightly at bay. So. A battle royale of weird ideas is great, but only if it's in a ring where everyone leaves their guns outside, and no one's life hangs in the balance. Otherwise it's a bunch of trolls playing dress up with someone else's clothes, burning someone else's stuff, killing someone else's kids; see Stalinism and Nazism. The current generation is lost for knowledge of history, so they don't understand the fire they're playing with every time they think imposing their correct point of view by force is the only way. It's not their fault; their parents were mostly idiots. But they only exist because some people held the fort for an arena where you could debate without existential peril to yourself or the opposite party. The framework is all. The ideas can come and go within it, and lots of seemingly stupid contradictions or compromises will arise, as you pointed out. But if any side is able to overturn the framework, then there will not be a fair battle of ideas ever again.