6 ms·

There’s a sequel going on with BF2042… the solution is simple, don’t preorder games. In reality, I know it’s unlikely. I’d be in favor of legislation forcing a

There’s a sequel going on with BF2042… the solution is simple, don’t preorder games. In reality, I know it’s unlikely. I’d be in favor of legislation forcing a return window that’s automated for pre orders.

noahtallen 5y ago
I believe Steam lets you return preordered games at any point before release. (At least, I was able to preorder New World, play the beta, and then, right before release, decide I didn’t want to keep it and got a refund.)
3a2d29 5y ago
Unpopular opinion incoming: The solution is consumers paying way higher prices for games. The reason games are rushed is because labor is a huge cost, and it isn't cost effective to continually bleed money waiting for revenue. Easier to just release unfinished.
- gruez 5y ago
  what's stopping them from pocketing the cash and still releasing it unfinished? after all, releases like cyberpunk 2077 shows that people would still buy it.
- Youden 5y ago
  Why do consumers need to pay way higher prices for games? In 2000 you could buy Deus Ex for $40. It was a fantastic and fantastically successful game, developed with a budget of ~$7 million dollars. It needed 175000 sales to break even, which it did. These days the standard price for a game is ~$60, so we are paying more. The market has also grown enormously. Video games used to be a thing played exclusively by "nerds" and now nearly everyone plays them in some form. And that's not even touching the whole micro purchases thing. So revenue has already increased, why do we need to increase it even further?
  - ptr 5y ago
    A movie entertains for ~2 hours and costs ~$10, ~$5/h. In this perspective, games are very cheap.
    - pas 5y ago
      movies still have enormous budgets. and to break even they target a much larger audience. plus except the A list stars the pay is not amazing. and the hours are probably even worse. though shooting is usually more varied than sitting at the same computer and IDE for years.
  - leetcrew 5y ago
    $40 in 2000 is about $65 in 2021 dollars. so if you pick that point of comparison, not much has changed. but IIRC, AAA games were already $60 by 2005, so compared against that, we are paying substantially less. at the same time, I really hate to pay $60 for pretty much any AAA title that comes out these days. AAA games are in a weird state. so much time and money has been spent patching and optimizing a fundamentally broken lighting model. bigger, prettier open worlds are created every year, and they really are impressive. but 95% of the map feels like no human has ever actually thought about whether it would be fun to play in. I kinda wonder who is playing all these 100+ hour games with mind-numbingly basic mechanics.
eru 5y ago
That proposed legislation sounds like bureaucracy for bureaucracies sake. All of a sudden, a company would need a compliance team to make sure they don't get sued if anything goes wrong with their pre-orders.
- bigmattystyles 5y ago
  I used to have the same thought but though it was expensive up front, GDPR seems to be going smoothly. If they can do that - stopping what is in my mind the predatory practice of pre-release sales can also be done.
  - eru 5y ago
    How is this predatory? Nobody forces you to pre-order anything.
- jusssi 5y ago
  A preorder is a sort of contract. A supplier promises a product with features x, y and z, on date nnnn. They fail to deliver -> breach of contract. Already supported in most legislations, I assume.
  - eru 5y ago
    Exactly. And that contract can specify whatever the parties want. Eg that you would accept a peppercorn in lieu of the promised game. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppercorn_(legal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppercorn_(legal)

noahtallen 5y ago

I believe Steam lets you return preordered games at any point before release. (At least, I was able to preorder New World, play the beta, and then, right before release, decide I didn’t want to keep it and got a refund.)

3a2d29 5y ago

Unpopular opinion incoming: The solution is consumers paying way higher prices for games. The reason games are rushed is because labor is a huge cost, and it isn't cost effective to continually bleed money waiting for revenue. Easier to just release unfinished.

gruez 5y ago
what's stopping them from pocketing the cash and still releasing it unfinished? after all, releases like cyberpunk 2077 shows that people would still buy it.
Youden 5y ago
Why do consumers need to pay way higher prices for games? In 2000 you could buy Deus Ex for $40. It was a fantastic and fantastically successful game, developed with a budget of ~$7 million dollars. It needed 175000 sales to break even, which it did. These days the standard price for a game is ~$60, so we are paying more. The market has also grown enormously. Video games used to be a thing played exclusively by "nerds" and now nearly everyone plays them in some form. And that's not even touching the whole micro purchases thing. So revenue has already increased, why do we need to increase it even further?
- ptr 5y ago
  A movie entertains for ~2 hours and costs ~$10, ~$5/h. In this perspective, games are very cheap.
  - pas 5y ago
    movies still have enormous budgets. and to break even they target a much larger audience. plus except the A list stars the pay is not amazing. and the hours are probably even worse. though shooting is usually more varied than sitting at the same computer and IDE for years.
- leetcrew 5y ago
  $40 in 2000 is about $65 in 2021 dollars. so if you pick that point of comparison, not much has changed. but IIRC, AAA games were already $60 by 2005, so compared against that, we are paying substantially less. at the same time, I really hate to pay $60 for pretty much any AAA title that comes out these days. AAA games are in a weird state. so much time and money has been spent patching and optimizing a fundamentally broken lighting model. bigger, prettier open worlds are created every year, and they really are impressive. but 95% of the map feels like no human has ever actually thought about whether it would be fun to play in. I kinda wonder who is playing all these 100+ hour games with mind-numbingly basic mechanics.

eru 5y ago

That proposed legislation sounds like bureaucracy for bureaucracies sake. All of a sudden, a company would need a compliance team to make sure they don't get sued if anything goes wrong with their pre-orders.

bigmattystyles 5y ago
I used to have the same thought but though it was expensive up front, GDPR seems to be going smoothly. If they can do that - stopping what is in my mind the predatory practice of pre-release sales can also be done.
- eru 5y ago
  How is this predatory? Nobody forces you to pre-order anything.
jusssi 5y ago
A preorder is a sort of contract. A supplier promises a product with features x, y and z, on date nnnn. They fail to deliver -> breach of contract. Already supported in most legislations, I assume.
- eru 5y ago
  Exactly. And that contract can specify whatever the parties want. Eg that you would accept a peppercorn in lieu of the promised game. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppercorn_(legal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppercorn_(legal)