5 ms·

> Imo we should be lauding this brand new sector I disagree. Twitch/YouTube/TikTok didn't create a new kind of millionaire. They're simply celebrities. The onl

by lhorie 5y ago

> Imo we should be lauding this brand new sector I disagree. Twitch/YouTube/TikTok didn't create a new kind of millionaire. They're simply celebrities. The only thing that arguably changed is that content production is so cheap and saturated now that consumers get a lot more choice in terms of who they want to watch, without being constrained by TV schedules and other distribution/logistics limitations. There is no "new industries", it all still falls under the entertainment industry umbrella, and even the monetization mechanisms are the same old ones (ads, sponsorships, merchandising). By "lauding celebrities", all we're accomplishing is consolidate consumer attention into fewer content production channels, solidifying the position of the platforms where these celebrities operate. Arguably the only noteworthy thing here is that technology changes and companies that embrace innovation will eat the lunches of those that fail to keep up (e.g. Blockbuster). "Everyone wants to work for FAANG" because a good chunk of the entertainment industry money is flowing there.

paulpauper 5y ago
it is different. the old celebrities were chosen by media execs, who wielded all the power. now the audience decides.
- dathinab 5y ago
  yes, it's basically strips gate-keepers from parts of the entertainment industry. Through it's still the entertainment industry as in: It requires a mixture of skill, hard work and luck to even just get to the point of earning more then just your basic-living expanses with it. Through we also have seen such a disruption in the music industries where with modern music services people can reach some degree of success without any deals with any large publishers (through it's not easy).
- jackothy 5y ago
  That is partially true but not entirely. Twitch still has a somewhat strict TOS and regularly bans streamers. The audience is not always allowed to watch what they want. I'm guessing this is because Twitch needs to be advertiser friendly.
notJim 5y ago
In addition to what others have said, I think the fact that people can make a living from very very niche content is novel. Arguably, it works so differently that it could be considered a new sector. > By "lauding celebrities", all we're accomplishing is consolidate consumer attention into fewer content production channels, solidifying the position of the platforms where these celebrities operate. I think you're on point about the platforms, but not about the channels per se. In the past, you basically got to watch what 60-year old guys in the executive suite thought was appropriate, whereas now you can watch a lot more types of stuff. And I think people are wising up to the power platforms had. I think when OnlyFans said they were banning porn, people quite rapidly found new platforms to move to. Building these platforms has also become cheaper and easier, especially in the last 2-5 years IMO.
- lhorie 5y ago
  I mean, cable was already in the niche catering business in the 90s. Gordon Ramsay or Jacques Cousteau or Mythbusters are all quite niche IMHO. I'd be willing to acknowledge that the existence of gaming/mukbang/etc content creators nowadays is merely the entertainment industry catching up with the fact that the world is a lot more vast (and dare I say mundane) than TV would have you believe. As for platform power and user choice, I think people have a misconception about how much "power" they have, considering that search results and recommendations are entirely at the mercy of the companies that provide them and they're very much aggregated by user profiles, much like cable had "hundreds of options" that are in actuality largely curated to target audiences. There are a variety of niche old videos that I can no longer find on youtube. The long tail does disappear for no rhyme or reason (actually, if you understand the logistics of live/cold storage and the scale at which youtube operates at, it totally makes sense). It certainly isn't like the napster days where you could in fact find that one ultra rare file that only one person in the world was seeding. As for content creator mobility, I don't consider twoset's presence on tiktok any more novel than hollywood getting into home video. Content creators and distributors interests' don't always align and there has never been an actual monopoly on distribution channels, even despite the existence of large media conglomerates. It's just the individual players that are different, IMHO.
- DarylZero 5y ago
slightwinder 5y ago
> I disagree. Twitch/YouTube/TikTok didn't create a new kind of millionaire. They're simply celebrities. Yes and no. They are celebs, but definitely a new style of celebs. They are your average Joe, with barely any special skill. They could be your neighbor or the dude next to you in a supermarket, and you wouldn't know. Furthermore, they are millionaire working from home, growing from home, with average equipment and average products. This is something which never happened before, not at this scale. Though, to be fair, there are also some actual skilled people growing into this space and celebs from other areas are breaking in too. > There is no "new industries", it all still falls under the entertainment industry umbrella, Yes, obviously. But the type and quality is completely different to established entertainment. It started with people with the bare minimum of entertaining-skill who established this. People who wouldn't have been able to succeed in the classical entertainment-industry. And this absolutely is a change. For the industry itself, it also is a change, because those people are cheaper and have a different angle to play at. This is more on the quality-level of a tupperware-party that somehow went up to a global scale.
- jayd16 5y ago
  >They are your average Joe, with barely any special skill. Their skill is usually something like live broadcasting and/or interviewing depending on the streamer as well as brand marketing. It's essentially the further democratization of talk shows, right?
- antisthenes 5y ago
  > They are your average Joe, with barely any special skill. Absolutely, provably false. It takes a lot of skill to constantly produce content at the rate that millionaire twitch streamers do. Most of them own youtube channels as well, which requires additional time to process, edit, and mix videos, depending on what they're doing with it. It also takes a high level of creativity in order to come up with new ideas for streams, keep the audience engaged while playing the same game for hundreds of hours on end. This means doing giveaways, interacting with the audience without offending them, planning contests, negotiating advertising deals with game-makers for promo-streams, etc. etc. It's an incredibly demanding gig, that, at the very least, requires a pretty insane schedule, or being really passionate about the job. Most people would burn-out at their rate, and a lot actually do. Maybe some streamers get help in production and orchestrating their stream, but for most it's more than a full-time job commitment. Those average Joes you mentioned? They get 1-2 viewers, who are usually their closest friends. This the skill ceiling for "barely any special skill" people. If they stream a game that just came out, they may break 10 viewers once in a while. That's about it.

by lhorie 5y ago

paulpauper 5y ago

it is different. the old celebrities were chosen by media execs, who wielded all the power. now the audience decides.

dathinab 5y ago
yes, it's basically strips gate-keepers from parts of the entertainment industry. Through it's still the entertainment industry as in: It requires a mixture of skill, hard work and luck to even just get to the point of earning more then just your basic-living expanses with it. Through we also have seen such a disruption in the music industries where with modern music services people can reach some degree of success without any deals with any large publishers (through it's not easy).
jackothy 5y ago
That is partially true but not entirely. Twitch still has a somewhat strict TOS and regularly bans streamers. The audience is not always allowed to watch what they want. I'm guessing this is because Twitch needs to be advertiser friendly.

notJim 5y ago

In addition to what others have said, I think the fact that people can make a living from very very niche content is novel. Arguably, it works so differently that it could be considered a new sector. > By "lauding celebrities", all we're accomplishing is consolidate consumer attention into fewer content production channels, solidifying the position of the platforms where these celebrities operate. I think you're on point about the platforms, but not about the channels per se. In the past, you basically got to watch what 60-year old guys in the executive suite thought was appropriate, whereas now you can watch a lot more types of stuff. And I think people are wising up to the power platforms had. I think when OnlyFans said they were banning porn, people quite rapidly found new platforms to move to. Building these platforms has also become cheaper and easier, especially in the last 2-5 years IMO.

lhorie 5y ago
I mean, cable was already in the niche catering business in the 90s. Gordon Ramsay or Jacques Cousteau or Mythbusters are all quite niche IMHO. I'd be willing to acknowledge that the existence of gaming/mukbang/etc content creators nowadays is merely the entertainment industry catching up with the fact that the world is a lot more vast (and dare I say mundane) than TV would have you believe. As for platform power and user choice, I think people have a misconception about how much "power" they have, considering that search results and recommendations are entirely at the mercy of the companies that provide them and they're very much aggregated by user profiles, much like cable had "hundreds of options" that are in actuality largely curated to target audiences. There are a variety of niche old videos that I can no longer find on youtube. The long tail does disappear for no rhyme or reason (actually, if you understand the logistics of live/cold storage and the scale at which youtube operates at, it totally makes sense). It certainly isn't like the napster days where you could in fact find that one ultra rare file that only one person in the world was seeding. As for content creator mobility, I don't consider twoset's presence on tiktok any more novel than hollywood getting into home video. Content creators and distributors interests' don't always align and there has never been an actual monopoly on distribution channels, even despite the existence of large media conglomerates. It's just the individual players that are different, IMHO.
DarylZero 5y ago

slightwinder 5y ago

> I disagree. Twitch/YouTube/TikTok didn't create a new kind of millionaire. They're simply celebrities. Yes and no. They are celebs, but definitely a new style of celebs. They are your average Joe, with barely any special skill. They could be your neighbor or the dude next to you in a supermarket, and you wouldn't know. Furthermore, they are millionaire working from home, growing from home, with average equipment and average products. This is something which never happened before, not at this scale. Though, to be fair, there are also some actual skilled people growing into this space and celebs from other areas are breaking in too. > There is no "new industries", it all still falls under the entertainment industry umbrella, Yes, obviously. But the type and quality is completely different to established entertainment. It started with people with the bare minimum of entertaining-skill who established this. People who wouldn't have been able to succeed in the classical entertainment-industry. And this absolutely is a change. For the industry itself, it also is a change, because those people are cheaper and have a different angle to play at. This is more on the quality-level of a tupperware-party that somehow went up to a global scale.

jayd16 5y ago
>They are your average Joe, with barely any special skill. Their skill is usually something like live broadcasting and/or interviewing depending on the streamer as well as brand marketing. It's essentially the further democratization of talk shows, right?
antisthenes 5y ago
> They are your average Joe, with barely any special skill. Absolutely, provably false. It takes a lot of skill to constantly produce content at the rate that millionaire twitch streamers do. Most of them own youtube channels as well, which requires additional time to process, edit, and mix videos, depending on what they're doing with it. It also takes a high level of creativity in order to come up with new ideas for streams, keep the audience engaged while playing the same game for hundreds of hours on end. This means doing giveaways, interacting with the audience without offending them, planning contests, negotiating advertising deals with game-makers for promo-streams, etc. etc. It's an incredibly demanding gig, that, at the very least, requires a pretty insane schedule, or being really passionate about the job. Most people would burn-out at their rate, and a lot actually do. Maybe some streamers get help in production and orchestrating their stream, but for most it's more than a full-time job commitment. Those average Joes you mentioned? They get 1-2 viewers, who are usually their closest friends. This the skill ceiling for "barely any special skill" people. If they stream a game that just came out, they may break 10 viewers once in a while. That's about it.