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Have you played League of Legends or Dota 2 before? It will be hard to convey the mental/emotional exhaustion that most people feel from playing MOBAs at even a

by Permit 5y ago

Have you played League of Legends or Dota 2 before? It will be hard to convey the mental/emotional exhaustion that most people feel from playing MOBAs at even a semi-competitive level. In my experience it's a lot different than playing FPS or other games. I have a distinct memory of finishing a game of Dota 2 and realizing that it felt as though I'd just finished a 3 hour exam. I didn't feel happy that we'd won, just relieved. I don't think this will convince you, but perhaps consider being open to the possibility that it genuinely is as difficult as solving most programming problems that we face in our day-to-day work. In my mind, it's at least as difficult as "easy" leetcode problems.

wiseowise 5y ago
> In my mind, it's at least as difficult as "easy" leetcode problems. I have 3k hours in Dota 2. I know exactly what it is and how it works. It's really not. Not even close.
kubb 5y ago
Yeah I've played League for a bit. It really does get easier the more you play. By the way, I've just read in the article that Tyler's been on Adderall since first grade, I guess that will help him stay focused.
- abledon 5y ago
  wow, that explains so much, he usually plays it offlike its only the pre-workout bloodrush hes drinking
Philip-J-Fry 5y ago
I've played League of Legends for nearly 10 years. Not to take anything away from Tyler1, because he really goes above and beyond, but it really doesn't take much mental focus or anything really to play it. Programming? It takes focus, you really have to think sometimes. But League? When I'm tired the game plays itself. It just feels like muscle memory. It might take a bit more effort to play at a consistently high level. But I'm pretty sure it's mostly muscle memory for him too. There's very little actual thinking other than the big picture of what objectives to take and I'm sure when he's playing for 20+ hours he's just on autopilot for the majority of the time. To put it into comparison with how little mental power it personally takes me, I like to watch a lot of Anime, that's Japanese animation with English subtitles. I can't watch Anime if I'm tired because keeping track of subtitles and what's on screen actually takes a substantial amount of mental power. But I can bash out 5 games of LoL back to back when I'm equally as tired.
- MacroChip 5y ago
  There's a difference between "playing the game" and playing the game. I can sit at a chess board and move pieces around and say that chess takes no focus because I chose not to focus
  - lostmsu 5y ago
    Is there thought? How do you know his skills are not due to a few hours (tens of hours, hundreds of hours) of intense training of a few basic rules, and the rest is just freeroaming like it is for every other player?
    - arcsonnet 5y ago
      Because there are other players on the other side of the game. They will be at comparable levels of "intense training of a few basic rules" (due to ELO based matchmaking) and they will be trying as hard as they can to beat him.
      - lostmsu 5y ago
        You can't assume high-level players are trying as hard as they can in a proof that high level players are trying as hard as they can. Your argument doesn't make any sense in the scenario I described.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- moosebear847 5y ago
  Playing a game like LoL is like being in a battle or war. Would you watch anime and shoot your gun with 'muscle memory' while fighting 5 ruthless, intelligent opponents? A fight requires constant reevaluation of the situation and planning to win the game. If you play by "muscle memory" and win, you are playing against weak unthinking opponents or getting carried by your team. If you played against good players, trust me you won't win thinking about anime and chilling. And it's very stressful because you're constantly on guard.
solidasparagus 5y ago
Playing MOBAs all day is much easier than programming all day. It has bigger lows like exhausting 100 minute techie games or getting tilted by teammates, but it's still somehow easier. I think it's because you get a fresh start every game and a good game is refreshing in a way that finishing a problem isn't.
- the_lonely_road 5y ago
  Sometimes grandmaster but frequently diamond player here that also built my own company where I frequently coded 12+ hours a day. I disagree with you completely. I was also significantly more exhausted from a long session of league then I was from a long session of developing one of my sites. You are always on for 30 minutes straight and near the end it’s almost non stop team fighting and positioning with micro decisions being made every few seconds versus coding where my mind will wander until I snap it back to focus.
  - wiseowise 5y ago
    You're an outlier, there's a reason why anybody can play games designed to hook at many people as possible and not everybody can program.
- saghm 5y ago
  I mean, it's a game that most people choose to play voluntarily, right? It's designed to be fun at some level, or else nobody would ever play it.
ZephyrBlu 5y ago
I would argue that is more due to stress than focus. Top players usually don't take laddering seriously (I.e. not stressed). Also, if you're playing for that long you end up making a lot of mistakes even if you're a top player. I don't think it's comparable to programming.
_prototype_ 5y ago
League is extremely fun and addicting. Its a huge dopamine kick. When I play, I stay hooked for hours on end and have to stop myself. When I code, I'm mostly just thinking hard and not very happy. The best part is the "aha" moment, and the huge dopamine kick of solving the programming/debugging problem. It is also NOT addicting. These are two completely different things. I'm not sure why you're so determined to compare the two. They are insanely different.

by Permit 5y ago

wiseowise 5y ago

> In my mind, it's at least as difficult as "easy" leetcode problems. I have 3k hours in Dota 2. I know exactly what it is and how it works. It's really not. Not even close.

kubb 5y ago

Yeah I've played League for a bit. It really does get easier the more you play. By the way, I've just read in the article that Tyler's been on Adderall since first grade, I guess that will help him stay focused.

abledon 5y ago
wow, that explains so much, he usually plays it offlike its only the pre-workout bloodrush hes drinking

Philip-J-Fry 5y ago

I've played League of Legends for nearly 10 years. Not to take anything away from Tyler1, because he really goes above and beyond, but it really doesn't take much mental focus or anything really to play it. Programming? It takes focus, you really have to think sometimes. But League? When I'm tired the game plays itself. It just feels like muscle memory. It might take a bit more effort to play at a consistently high level. But I'm pretty sure it's mostly muscle memory for him too. There's very little actual thinking other than the big picture of what objectives to take and I'm sure when he's playing for 20+ hours he's just on autopilot for the majority of the time. To put it into comparison with how little mental power it personally takes me, I like to watch a lot of Anime, that's Japanese animation with English subtitles. I can't watch Anime if I'm tired because keeping track of subtitles and what's on screen actually takes a substantial amount of mental power. But I can bash out 5 games of LoL back to back when I'm equally as tired.

MacroChip 5y ago
There's a difference between "playing the game" and playing the game. I can sit at a chess board and move pieces around and say that chess takes no focus because I chose not to focus
- lostmsu 5y ago
  Is there thought? How do you know his skills are not due to a few hours (tens of hours, hundreds of hours) of intense training of a few basic rules, and the rest is just freeroaming like it is for every other player?
  - arcsonnet 5y ago
    Because there are other players on the other side of the game. They will be at comparable levels of "intense training of a few basic rules" (due to ELO based matchmaking) and they will be trying as hard as they can to beat him.
    - lostmsu 5y ago
      You can't assume high-level players are trying as hard as they can in a proof that high level players are trying as hard as they can. Your argument doesn't make any sense in the scenario I described.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
moosebear847 5y ago
Playing a game like LoL is like being in a battle or war. Would you watch anime and shoot your gun with 'muscle memory' while fighting 5 ruthless, intelligent opponents? A fight requires constant reevaluation of the situation and planning to win the game. If you play by "muscle memory" and win, you are playing against weak unthinking opponents or getting carried by your team. If you played against good players, trust me you won't win thinking about anime and chilling. And it's very stressful because you're constantly on guard.

solidasparagus 5y ago

Playing MOBAs all day is much easier than programming all day. It has bigger lows like exhausting 100 minute techie games or getting tilted by teammates, but it's still somehow easier. I think it's because you get a fresh start every game and a good game is refreshing in a way that finishing a problem isn't.

the_lonely_road 5y ago
Sometimes grandmaster but frequently diamond player here that also built my own company where I frequently coded 12+ hours a day. I disagree with you completely. I was also significantly more exhausted from a long session of league then I was from a long session of developing one of my sites. You are always on for 30 minutes straight and near the end it’s almost non stop team fighting and positioning with micro decisions being made every few seconds versus coding where my mind will wander until I snap it back to focus.
- wiseowise 5y ago
  You're an outlier, there's a reason why anybody can play games designed to hook at many people as possible and not everybody can program.
saghm 5y ago
I mean, it's a game that most people choose to play voluntarily, right? It's designed to be fun at some level, or else nobody would ever play it.

ZephyrBlu 5y ago

I would argue that is more due to stress than focus. Top players usually don't take laddering seriously (I.e. not stressed). Also, if you're playing for that long you end up making a lot of mistakes even if you're a top player. I don't think it's comparable to programming.

_prototype_ 5y ago

League is extremely fun and addicting. Its a huge dopamine kick. When I play, I stay hooked for hours on end and have to stop myself. When I code, I'm mostly just thinking hard and not very happy. The best part is the "aha" moment, and the huge dopamine kick of solving the programming/debugging problem. It is also NOT addicting. These are two completely different things. I'm not sure why you're so determined to compare the two. They are insanely different.