4 ms·

There's no lending of money involved? If your card gets declined, they add a fee to your bill. You can either choose to not pay it (and stop receiving any servi

There's no lending of money involved? If your card gets declined, they add a fee to your bill. You can either choose to not pay it (and stop receiving any services from that company, and possibly have your account sent to collections or even be sued since you agreed to pay something and then didn't pay it), or you can pay it.

worik 5y ago
IANAL But AFAIK in civilised jurisdictions if I offer a service for money, and you offer money, I must offer the service. If I make up charges for you and you refuse to pay, I can cease offering the service (to everybody) but I cannot just cut you out because you will not pay the out of contract charge. These laws are to protect people who belong to groups that commonly get discriminated against.
- niij 5y ago
  > IANAL That much is clear. Charging a fee for providing bad payment info is legal. See "bounced check" fees.
  - itsabigworld 5y ago
    GP referred to "civilised jurisdictions", by which most of us snarkily mean "outside the US". Since you refer to cheques, I presume you're in the US. If that is correct, then it's kind of beside the point whether or not it's legal there. In any case, their point is valid. This would certainly not be legal in my jurisdiction. The company can write it in the contract all they want, but the law on collecting payments trumps that and is the only thing that matters. You wouldn't have to pay. æøå Edit to add: "Lov om inkassovirksomhet" § 17, which according to § 3 can't be voided by agreement. Short version is that you can't demand fees covered unless the client fails to pay within the 14 day deadline of the payment reminder.
  - jfrunyon 5y ago
    LOL @ the guy replying to you acting like collection costs ("§ 17. The debtor's responsibility for costs of extrajudicial collection") is somehow relevant... :)
    - itsabigworld 5y ago
      And LOL @ you not understanding that law :)
- jfrunyon 5y ago
  > IANAL But AFAIK in civilised jurisdictions if I offer a service for money, and you offer money, I must offer the service. First off, you need to stop using the (incredibly loaded) word "civilized". Second, I am not aware of ANY jurisdiction in which businesses are required to provide their services or products to anyone. Third, THIS IS NOT AN "OUT OF CONTRACT CHARGE". This is a charge which IS IN THE CONTRACT. Fourth, anti-discrimination laws have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with charging someone a fee when they don't pay you in a timely manner and/or cause you to incur higher costs (such as decline fees or NSF fees).
  - thriftwy 5y ago
    When selling to consumers, you can't force an arbitrary contract on them and demand that they pay you in various tangential circumstances. Neither you are a bank neither them are your insurer.

worik 5y ago

IANAL But AFAIK in civilised jurisdictions if I offer a service for money, and you offer money, I must offer the service. If I make up charges for you and you refuse to pay, I can cease offering the service (to everybody) but I cannot just cut you out because you will not pay the out of contract charge. These laws are to protect people who belong to groups that commonly get discriminated against.

niij 5y ago
> IANAL That much is clear. Charging a fee for providing bad payment info is legal. See "bounced check" fees.
- itsabigworld 5y ago
  GP referred to "civilised jurisdictions", by which most of us snarkily mean "outside the US". Since you refer to cheques, I presume you're in the US. If that is correct, then it's kind of beside the point whether or not it's legal there. In any case, their point is valid. This would certainly not be legal in my jurisdiction. The company can write it in the contract all they want, but the law on collecting payments trumps that and is the only thing that matters. You wouldn't have to pay. æøå Edit to add: "Lov om inkassovirksomhet" § 17, which according to § 3 can't be voided by agreement. Short version is that you can't demand fees covered unless the client fails to pay within the 14 day deadline of the payment reminder.
- jfrunyon 5y ago
  LOL @ the guy replying to you acting like collection costs ("§ 17. The debtor's responsibility for costs of extrajudicial collection") is somehow relevant... :)
  - itsabigworld 5y ago
    And LOL @ you not understanding that law :)
jfrunyon 5y ago
> IANAL But AFAIK in civilised jurisdictions if I offer a service for money, and you offer money, I must offer the service. First off, you need to stop using the (incredibly loaded) word "civilized". Second, I am not aware of ANY jurisdiction in which businesses are required to provide their services or products to anyone. Third, THIS IS NOT AN "OUT OF CONTRACT CHARGE". This is a charge which IS IN THE CONTRACT. Fourth, anti-discrimination laws have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with charging someone a fee when they don't pay you in a timely manner and/or cause you to incur higher costs (such as decline fees or NSF fees).
- thriftwy 5y ago
  When selling to consumers, you can't force an arbitrary contract on them and demand that they pay you in various tangential circumstances. Neither you are a bank neither them are your insurer.