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He already had a reputation for using abusive language in emails to employees, but the treatment toward his investors was yet another shock. Abusing employees

by vanusa 5y ago

He already had a reputation for using abusive language in emails to employees, but the treatment toward his investors was yet another shock. Abusing employees is more or less expected, out in techland. Ruffle investors' feathers, however, and there may be consequences.

SEJeff 5y ago
Why? When engineer salaries are quite good, many engineers are able to easily move laterally between top firms. It should not be normalized to be awful to your employees.
sharken 5y ago
Maybe expected but certainly not accepted. In tech the only way to gain respect is to know what you are doing, shouting and using abusive language makes you lose that respect. Keep it up, and you have to start looking for a new employee.
- vanusa 5y ago
  In tech the only way to gain respect is to know what you are doing, shouting and using abusive language makes you lose that respect. That's the platonic ideal, at least. The reality on the ground is often far different.
- weare138 5y ago
  If your career is in tech sure but Garg's of the world are seldom one of us. In business world the end justifies the means. This type of behavior is not only tolerated but often encouraged. This is only becoming an issue now because the story went viral and is generating bad press which is bad for profits.
polote 5y ago
> Ruffle investors' feathers, however, and there may be consequences. Because that's their main power https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29320078 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29320078 Your Board of Directors is Probably Going to Fire You 718 points
eikenberry 5y ago
> Abusing employees is more or less expected, out in techland. Which techland do you live in? In my techland there are tons of jobs at places without abusive leadership where you can get a job in a few weeks. No one I know in my land expects this sort of treatment as everyone knows it won't stand.
- bsuvc 5y ago
  I guess it depends on what they meant by "techland". I think companies who are tech companies or where tech is central to the product tend to attract good tech leaders who treat their teams well. But at companies where tech is seen as a secondary to the product tech employees are sometimes treated poorly, with things like overwork/abuse of agile processes to extract more work out of developers, unsustainable on-call rotations, unreasonable support response expectations, understaffed teams, restricted budgets, inadequate equipment like super cheap budget laptops, etc. Sure they might add a foosball table and buy a pizza once in a while, but by and large many companies don't treated tech especially well. I'm not sure if it is a lack of respect (some companies see developers as a pluggable commodity) or resentment for having to pay them more than they think they should have to. I guess it depends on where you live, but some cities just don't have a lot of pure tech companies, so you are stuck with places like these.
  - eikenberry 5y ago
    I agree that there are places like that, I worked at one briefly.. the key there being the word 'briefly'. As soon as it got annoying I started looking and had a new job pretty quick. Lack of mobility used to be an issue as well, but with all the current remote work possibilities this is no longer the case. The bad employers will end up with the bottom of the barrel, just like in cities with lots of good options, as all their talent will be able to find work elsewhere.
    - bsuvc 5y ago
      Great points. I work in consulting, so thankfully I don't get stuck somewhere bad for long, but I have seen it first hand on many occasions. Enough to be jaded I guess. You're right that remote work helps this a lot. I do think that landing a remote job is probably more difficult for someone who is only an average / mediocre developer. You're competing against a larger pool of talented developers.
smsm42 5y ago
Worked in tech for decades, had some very heated disagreements many times, never had abusive language used towards me by bosses or used it myself towards colleagues or subordinates. I don't think it's expected. It happens, but it's not a normal thing.

by vanusa 5y ago

SEJeff 5y ago

Why? When engineer salaries are quite good, many engineers are able to easily move laterally between top firms. It should not be normalized to be awful to your employees.

sharken 5y ago

Maybe expected but certainly not accepted. In tech the only way to gain respect is to know what you are doing, shouting and using abusive language makes you lose that respect. Keep it up, and you have to start looking for a new employee.

vanusa 5y ago
In tech the only way to gain respect is to know what you are doing, shouting and using abusive language makes you lose that respect. That's the platonic ideal, at least. The reality on the ground is often far different.
weare138 5y ago
If your career is in tech sure but Garg's of the world are seldom one of us. In business world the end justifies the means. This type of behavior is not only tolerated but often encouraged. This is only becoming an issue now because the story went viral and is generating bad press which is bad for profits.

polote 5y ago

> Ruffle investors' feathers, however, and there may be consequences. Because that's their main power https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29320078 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29320078 Your Board of Directors is Probably Going to Fire You 718 points

eikenberry 5y ago

> Abusing employees is more or less expected, out in techland. Which techland do you live in? In my techland there are tons of jobs at places without abusive leadership where you can get a job in a few weeks. No one I know in my land expects this sort of treatment as everyone knows it won't stand.

bsuvc 5y ago
I guess it depends on what they meant by "techland". I think companies who are tech companies or where tech is central to the product tend to attract good tech leaders who treat their teams well. But at companies where tech is seen as a secondary to the product tech employees are sometimes treated poorly, with things like overwork/abuse of agile processes to extract more work out of developers, unsustainable on-call rotations, unreasonable support response expectations, understaffed teams, restricted budgets, inadequate equipment like super cheap budget laptops, etc. Sure they might add a foosball table and buy a pizza once in a while, but by and large many companies don't treated tech especially well. I'm not sure if it is a lack of respect (some companies see developers as a pluggable commodity) or resentment for having to pay them more than they think they should have to. I guess it depends on where you live, but some cities just don't have a lot of pure tech companies, so you are stuck with places like these.
- eikenberry 5y ago
  I agree that there are places like that, I worked at one briefly.. the key there being the word 'briefly'. As soon as it got annoying I started looking and had a new job pretty quick. Lack of mobility used to be an issue as well, but with all the current remote work possibilities this is no longer the case. The bad employers will end up with the bottom of the barrel, just like in cities with lots of good options, as all their talent will be able to find work elsewhere.
  - bsuvc 5y ago
    Great points. I work in consulting, so thankfully I don't get stuck somewhere bad for long, but I have seen it first hand on many occasions. Enough to be jaded I guess. You're right that remote work helps this a lot. I do think that landing a remote job is probably more difficult for someone who is only an average / mediocre developer. You're competing against a larger pool of talented developers.

smsm42 5y ago

Worked in tech for decades, had some very heated disagreements many times, never had abusive language used towards me by bosses or used it myself towards colleagues or subordinates. I don't think it's expected. It happens, but it's not a normal thing.