7 ms·

Ruthless. Just pure evil to target one specific company like that!

by romeros 5y ago

WJW 5y ago
Why do you think they only targeted Borland like that?
- wombatmobile 5y ago
  Because the objective of Microsoft's recruitment was not just to acquire talent, it was to diminish their leading competitor.
- Spooky23 5y ago
  MS was trying to pivot away from their 90s platforms, and Borland was a potential destination for customers jumping ship from stuff like VB. It was a different time. Even dinosaurs like IBM were still competitive in some verticals.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  In a nutshell: Because Borland, more than anyone else, had hugely superior development tools (compilers and IDEs) for Windows.
Ansil849 5y ago
You're acting like the employees were forced into the limos at gunpoint. People have free volition. Offering someone a better opportunity is not remotely 'evil'.
- Lammy 5y ago
  "What's wrong with this country? Can't a man walk down the street without being offered a job‽" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDbvVFffWV4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDbvVFffWV4
  - tinalumfoil 5y ago
    In this case it's more like, "can't a CEO walk down the street knowing his employees are safely shielded from better work opportunities"
- ozim 5y ago
  Is it? Hooker offering good time is still quite evil. Praying on the low instincts of people like simply more pay (even if a lot) -- more pleasure is considered rather evil. Cam girls praying on low self esteem man. Isn't it the same? Throwing money at people who will grab it because they are thirsty? We can argue that Borland developers were underpaid and Borland was evil - because they were used. Again "Is it?". That is just such complex question that I am not proposing an answer...
- blagie 5y ago
  It's anti-competitive. There's a difference between hiring talent because you want talent, and hiring talent to undermine a smaller competitor. It's an analogous to dumping. That is evil.
  - AtlasBarfed 5y ago
    Dumping is basically not enforced, even if it is against the law. Monopolies and cartels are against the law, but not enforced. It is a sad reality of the modern economy, and one of the biggest indicators of who actually runs America. At least in this case workers made money. If borland was losing money, why didn't the execs negotiate a merger if they had so much desirable talent? Hmmmmm, I bet the execs couldn't negotiate a big enough reward for themselves in an acquisition. The limo pickup at lunch strikes me as a big middle finger to Borland's management. Of all of Borland's products that I liked, did I like them because of the software devs or the management? I guess what I want is the borland devs back. I miss Turbo Pascal, DOS or Windows.
  - Ansil849 5y ago
    Again...you are acting as if the people being hired are...what? Not humans with free will?
    - blagie 5y ago
      Shoppers buying lower-priced products at a giant retailer moving into a new market are also humans with free will. It's the rational choice. Once the store drives local businesses out, prices go up. That's why this kind of behavior is unlawful.
      - Ansil849 5y ago
        I don't understand your analogy. Are you saying once Microsoft drives Borland out it will...cut salaries?...raise prices?
gavinray 5y ago
It's not ruthless -- it's business. If the fault lies on anyone, it's the employees who accepted the offers. If they really thought it was "evil", they would have denied the offer on moral grounds or in loyalty to their employer. Do you not frequently get offers for more money than you are currently making at your employer? I would be a massive asshole if I accepted and left a job every time I got one of those -- especially in this market! Since they succeeded in hiring so much of their company away, it seems none of them felt particularly attached to Borland or their work there, compared to a salary. The only "evil" in the situation is how easily some (most?) people will abandon you the moment they get a better opportunity. I suppose Borland could have matched salaries or tried to keep their employees in whatever way (maybe they did, who knows?) but at the end of the day either they didn't, or it wasn't enough for those engineers.
- thesuitonym 5y ago
  >The only "evil" in the situation is how easily some (most?) people will abandon you the moment they get a better opportunity. As if your company wouldn't fire you the moment it was more lucrative to do so.
- fknorangesite 5y ago
  > It's not ruthless -- it's business. It's not like these things are mutually exclusive.
  - gavinray 5y ago
    It's a dick move, and I wouldn't do it, but I am also not beholden to a board of investors/shareholders that expect to see positive ROE at the end of the day.
    - anonymousiam 5y ago
      This is part of Microsoft's core culture. Bill Gates championed the philosophy of doing anything it takes to get ahead, as long as there's some argument that it might be legal.
zepto 5y ago
Not really. Borland could have issued attractive stock based retention packages to the employees they wanted to keep, and forced Microsoft to acquire the company or go away. This was on Borland for not adequately valuing their staff.
- duped 5y ago
  Borland was losing over a hundred million in revenue while Microsoft was offering seven figure signing bonuses. There's no way they could have paid more than what MS was, since MS was using their war chest to kill the company.
  - xchaotic 5y ago
    as the op says - they could have issued stock instead of real money
    - duped 5y ago
      Equity schmequity, and we don't know what Borland did or didn't offer to keep people around. We just know MS offered more.
      - zepto 5y ago
        We know for sure that Borland didn’t offer enough. And we can reasonable speculate that they didn’t offer a significant ownership stake.
    - speedgeek 5y ago
      "Stock Instead of Real Money" is my new band name. So much meaning in just five words :)
    - bitwize 5y ago
      I call equity "Bison dollars": https://youtu.be/Shxiy7l5b_4 https://youtu.be/Shxiy7l5b_4 It's only worth anything if the world-domination plans go off without a hitch.

Ruthless. Just pure evil to target one specific company like that!

WJW 5y ago

Why do you think they only targeted Borland like that?

wombatmobile 5y ago
Because the objective of Microsoft's recruitment was not just to acquire talent, it was to diminish their leading competitor.
Spooky23 5y ago
MS was trying to pivot away from their 90s platforms, and Borland was a potential destination for customers jumping ship from stuff like VB. It was a different time. Even dinosaurs like IBM were still competitive in some verticals.
CRConrad 5y ago
In a nutshell: Because Borland, more than anyone else, had hugely superior development tools (compilers and IDEs) for Windows.

Ansil849 5y ago

You're acting like the employees were forced into the limos at gunpoint. People have free volition. Offering someone a better opportunity is not remotely 'evil'.

Lammy 5y ago
"What's wrong with this country? Can't a man walk down the street without being offered a job‽" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDbvVFffWV4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDbvVFffWV4
- tinalumfoil 5y ago
  In this case it's more like, "can't a CEO walk down the street knowing his employees are safely shielded from better work opportunities"
ozim 5y ago
Is it? Hooker offering good time is still quite evil. Praying on the low instincts of people like simply more pay (even if a lot) -- more pleasure is considered rather evil. Cam girls praying on low self esteem man. Isn't it the same? Throwing money at people who will grab it because they are thirsty? We can argue that Borland developers were underpaid and Borland was evil - because they were used. Again "Is it?". That is just such complex question that I am not proposing an answer...
blagie 5y ago
It's anti-competitive. There's a difference between hiring talent because you want talent, and hiring talent to undermine a smaller competitor. It's an analogous to dumping. That is evil.
- AtlasBarfed 5y ago
  Dumping is basically not enforced, even if it is against the law. Monopolies and cartels are against the law, but not enforced. It is a sad reality of the modern economy, and one of the biggest indicators of who actually runs America. At least in this case workers made money. If borland was losing money, why didn't the execs negotiate a merger if they had so much desirable talent? Hmmmmm, I bet the execs couldn't negotiate a big enough reward for themselves in an acquisition. The limo pickup at lunch strikes me as a big middle finger to Borland's management. Of all of Borland's products that I liked, did I like them because of the software devs or the management? I guess what I want is the borland devs back. I miss Turbo Pascal, DOS or Windows.
- Ansil849 5y ago
  Again...you are acting as if the people being hired are...what? Not humans with free will?
  - blagie 5y ago
    Shoppers buying lower-priced products at a giant retailer moving into a new market are also humans with free will. It's the rational choice. Once the store drives local businesses out, prices go up. That's why this kind of behavior is unlawful.
    - Ansil849 5y ago
      I don't understand your analogy. Are you saying once Microsoft drives Borland out it will...cut salaries?...raise prices?

gavinray 5y ago

It's not ruthless -- it's business. If the fault lies on anyone, it's the employees who accepted the offers. If they really thought it was "evil", they would have denied the offer on moral grounds or in loyalty to their employer. Do you not frequently get offers for more money than you are currently making at your employer? I would be a massive asshole if I accepted and left a job every time I got one of those -- especially in this market! Since they succeeded in hiring so much of their company away, it seems none of them felt particularly attached to Borland or their work there, compared to a salary. The only "evil" in the situation is how easily some (most?) people will abandon you the moment they get a better opportunity. I suppose Borland could have matched salaries or tried to keep their employees in whatever way (maybe they did, who knows?) but at the end of the day either they didn't, or it wasn't enough for those engineers.

thesuitonym 5y ago
>The only "evil" in the situation is how easily some (most?) people will abandon you the moment they get a better opportunity. As if your company wouldn't fire you the moment it was more lucrative to do so.
fknorangesite 5y ago
> It's not ruthless -- it's business. It's not like these things are mutually exclusive.
- gavinray 5y ago
  It's a dick move, and I wouldn't do it, but I am also not beholden to a board of investors/shareholders that expect to see positive ROE at the end of the day.
  - anonymousiam 5y ago
    This is part of Microsoft's core culture. Bill Gates championed the philosophy of doing anything it takes to get ahead, as long as there's some argument that it might be legal.

zepto 5y ago

Not really. Borland could have issued attractive stock based retention packages to the employees they wanted to keep, and forced Microsoft to acquire the company or go away. This was on Borland for not adequately valuing their staff.

duped 5y ago
Borland was losing over a hundred million in revenue while Microsoft was offering seven figure signing bonuses. There's no way they could have paid more than what MS was, since MS was using their war chest to kill the company.
- xchaotic 5y ago
  as the op says - they could have issued stock instead of real money
  - duped 5y ago
    Equity schmequity, and we don't know what Borland did or didn't offer to keep people around. We just know MS offered more.
    - zepto 5y ago
      We know for sure that Borland didn’t offer enough. And we can reasonable speculate that they didn’t offer a significant ownership stake.
  - speedgeek 5y ago
    "Stock Instead of Real Money" is my new band name. So much meaning in just five words :)
  - bitwize 5y ago
    I call equity "Bison dollars": https://youtu.be/Shxiy7l5b_4 https://youtu.be/Shxiy7l5b_4 It's only worth anything if the world-domination plans go off without a hitch.