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>I'd say it's local, and lets people know what your business is and what services you offer. >I'd ban targeted advertising in any form. Aren't these at odds?

• ericmay 5y ago
  When I say local I'm thinking like, you can have a sign on the sidewalk for your business or you can have a sign in front of your store or something. I wasn't clear on that - my bad. I so far haven't seen any benefit to me personally from targeted advertising. A lot of companies take information about me and my activities without a true way to consent and then use that to send me ads or try and find ways to make me addicted to their products. If they got rid of targeted ads I think there'd be 0 detriment to my own life and lots of benefits. Certainly open to other arguments though. > on the other I'm not sure how you make a product, service or SMB known without it and I doubt most of my friends' product, service or SMB would exist without online targeted advertising for finding customers Yea personally I wouldn't care at all. It's like if you made a business that depended on selling nicotine or selling cigarette filters and then we banned cigarettes. I'm not saying we should or shouldn't here, just that if as a society we decided X was bad and shouldn't be sold, then people who sell products related to X I mean we shouldn't keep something bad around just for that reason. > IMO the solution is more akin to giving more privacy rights and options than an outright ban, granted I have no clue if that is enforceable or how to implement. I think this can work on the web or Internet technologies, but I'm also concerned about things like billboards, or the newspaper ad section that even when I call and ask them to stop I still get tossed into my yard or on the sidewalk. I don't want to see the billboard yet I'm forced to. I don't want people to throw newspaper ads on my front yard but I'm forced to. At least with the web though I can just turn on ad blockers and use technology to fight it. I can't do anything about the newspaper stuff. I fantasize about saving them for a year or something and then giving them back. It pisses me off because these things end up all over the street and get washed into and clog up sewer drains too.
  • BbzzbB 5y ago
    The benefit I highlighted is rather geared towards being an enabler of entrepreneurship, I myself dislike ads enough that I barely ever see one (outside Facebook, great HTML obfuscation there) so I can't pretend I'm a fan of it for product discoverability or what not. >It's like if you made a business that depended on selling nicotine Targeted advertising is not the reason why the modern Internet is addictive so the nicotine argument is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned, those are separate issues. You could say, IMO rightfully, that profit motives are the incentive that pushed Internet companies towards addiction-optimization, but it would be equally true if you couldn't target-advertise. >I'm also concerned about things like billboards, or the newspaper ad section that even when I call and ask them to stop I still get tossed into my yard or on the sidewalk. I don't want to see the billboard yet I'm forced to. Not saying this is a good or bad idea, but if you ban targeted advertising and then all forms of IRL advertising, how do you even develop a new product or make your service known if you don't have access to a lot of capital to spam ads on TV, carpet bomb untargetted ads or buy/rent prime real estate for a store-front (assuming you have a store-business in the first place)? As much as I dislike both online and IRL ads too, arguably the latter more as I can't block it out of my eyesight, but I recognize/believe they are useful to foster SMBs and self-employment which seems, in my book, crucial for social mobility and a democratized capitalism. Where I'm getting at is that I think (could be wrong, I'm no expert and am speaking from intuition) that expunging advertisement from our lives or making it extremely prohibitive (which I think would be the result of the rules you'd set) would simply further concentrate capital in the hands of large corporations or individuals with high means. I'm not saying your take is invalid but I'd be more inclined towards regulating the deleterious effects of advertising (privacy, advertising drugs or toys, intrusive or excessive panels, height and location limitations, ban some manipulative behaviors, false advertisement, right to opt-out or opt-in by default, etc) than outright banning them all, as much as I hate being advertised to.
    • ericmay 5y ago
      > The benefit I highlighted is rather geared towards being an enabler of entrepreneurship Yea it's like so many things a cost/benefit analysis. But do we want to rely on selling ads to fund entrepreneurial endeavors? Idk. I think someone could argue that if you can't survive without selling ads then you shouldn't start that business. (Let me know if that's not what you were getting at with that comment). I also advise a lot of college age students looking to start companies and whenever they talk about ads I make them create a business model that doesn't involve ads. It's a good test and if nothing else gets them thinking about alternative business models (ads are lazy thinking in this space). > Targeted advertising is not the reason why the modern Internet is addictive so the nicotine argument is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned, those are separate issues. You could say, IMO rightfully, that profit motives are the incentive that pushed Internet companies towards addiction-optimization, but it would be equally true if you couldn't target-advertise. Sorry my point wasn't to draw a comparison between nicotine and addictiveness of ads on the Internet but to draw a comparison between a potentially harmful product (cigarettes or targeted ads) and then downstream industries or businesses that rely on those harmful products. It's like saying "well don't ban cigarettes, how am I going to sell Nicotine patches". > Not saying this is a good or bad idea, but if you ban targeted advertising and then all forms of IRL advertising, how do you even develop a new product or make your service known if you don't have access to a lot of capital to spam ads on TV, carpet bomb untargetted ads or buy/rent prime real estate for a store-front (assuming you have a store-business in the first place)? As much as I dislike both online and IRL ads too, arguably the latter more as I can't block it out of my eyesight, but I recognize/believe they are useful to foster SMBs and self-employment which seems, in my book, crucial for social mobility and a democratized capitalism. Yea it's easy to pontificate as I'm doing and then like you said you get some company they just plaster ads all over storefronts and we're just dealing with other negative externalities. The thing I see though is that we're kind of in a somewhat neutral equilibrium with advertising, but if it starts to "get real" we're going to be in big trouble because companies like Facebook, Google, others aren't just going to sit around and watch their business collapse as people fight against tracking and ads. Long story short it's not that big of a problem right now, but it could be. > I'm not saying your take is invalid but I'd be more inclined towards regulating the deleterious effects of advertising (privacy, advertising drugs or toys, intrusive or excessive panels, height and location limitations, ban some manipulative behaviors, false advertisement, right to opt-out or opt-in by default, etc) than outright banning them all, as much as I hate being advertised to. Yea totally and I get where you're going. The thing I worry about is like so many regulations the more we add the more we have to maintain and the more like tech debt they are. With respect to your question about how to develop a new product or make your service known I'd just say tons of small businesses really do that right now with 0 capital for ads on TV or anything. Almost all of the best products or services I have used have been from word-of-mouth, research and trying to find just good and unbiased product reviews, and just seeing stuff. I think in America in particular we're so used to so many ads and we're subjected to so much advertising because we live in suburban homes, don't walk past any coffee shops or small businesses on the way to anywhere, and we drive so they have to create these giant billboards and McDonalds signs off the highway. It's hard to imagine a world where those things exist because we're just so used to them, but all of the best places I've ever visited weren't filled with ads. Becoming "touristy" is a manifestation of the advertising and consumerist culture creeping in. If I could, I think just banning billboards and highway signs, and making junk mail and all of that stuff illegal is a good place to start. I appreciate your thoughts and perspectives here btw. Interesting discussion!