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As an American, I find it very hard to decide what to think about these issues. Our military certainly makes mistakes, and people should be held accountable, b

As an American, I find it very hard to decide what to think about these issues. Our military certainly makes mistakes, and people should be held accountable, but on the other hand the U.S. upholds much stricter rules of engagement than any of its enemies (hell, even stricter than our cops). Should credit not be given for that?

justicezyx 5y ago
> Our military certainly makes mistakes, and people should be held accountable, but on the other hand the U.S. upholds much stricter rules of engagement than any of its enemies (hell, even stricter than our cops). Should credit not be given for that? Why comparing with enemies? Should one or an org strive to be the best according to a universal standard?
realce 5y ago
> but on the other hand the U.S. upholds much stricter rules of engagement than any of its enemies (hell, even stricter than our cops). Should credit not be given for that? In all honesty and at the very minimum, being criticized openly and fairly for atrocities is the cost of being seen as capable of virtuous military action. The older I get though, the less objective distinction I see. I'm sure that's how the dead felt in their last moment as well. Just look at the last US bombing in Afghanistan where they hit the car full of water and children. We like to act like there's a higher standard, but who will ever be held accountable for that mistake? Nobody.
- queuebert 5y ago
  I'm ashamed to admit I forgot about that once the news cycle moved on. Someone should definitely be held accountable, especially since all evidence points to it not even being an honest mistake, but rather a PR move made against the advice of ground commanders.
  - tinco 5y ago
    It was Biden who was accountable. What are we gonna do, hold re-elections? Just after the democracy was shaken to its core by the January 6th attack? Hand over the control to the republicans who have shown themselves to be absolutely incapable of formulating rational thought or speaking the truth to their own voter base? Admit that the democratic party is so thoroughly corrupt that even after losing the easiest election in US history to a buffoon, they could not come up with a candidate with the smallest amount of integrity or backbone, and pushed up some guy who would step over the bodies of children just for a shot of giving the illusion that the US is actually in control of the rushed evacuation from a war he's been losing for a decade.
janto 5y ago
A free media forms part of what keeps a Western military to stricter rules of engagement.
mongol 5y ago
Yes but credit should not be given for their mistakes.
pozdnyshev90 5y ago
>but on the other hand the U.S. upholds much stricter rules of engagement than any of its enemies And where did you hear that from? Our "independent" papers of record aka state department stenographers?
dundarious 5y ago
If a country uses military force beyond its borders far more than any other nation (let's ignore actual border/territorial disputes), I don't think it deserves much credit for being, let's say, only 90% as brutal (which I would dispute as well, but it would take really getting into the weeds -- start off with some examples from https://archive.md/20211006055938/https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/09/13/the-other-afghan-women https://archive.md/20211006055938/https://www.newyorker.com/...).
lawn 5y ago
> the U.S. upholds much stricter rules of engagement than any of its enemies (hell, even stricter than our cops). Is that a joke?
tinco 5y ago
As awful as the cops relatively often are, I've never heard of one "accidentily" killing a bunch of kids because they were near a white pick-up truck. The wrong pick-up truck by the way, it didn't even have terrorists in it. And that's just one example from dozens many we only know about because of Assange's hard work. And with regards to the enemies of the U.S., and their "rules of engagement" it's quite likely they don't adhere to any, but I don't know how much worse that is than "attack without warning on there being a 1/100 chance of you being a terrorist who is not even near any US asset".
choward 5y ago
> the U.S. upholds much stricter rules of engagement than any of its enemies Where is your evidence of this? I can't remember the last time a drone attacked US soil and killed innocent civilians. And have you actually seen the main video that Assange released with Apaches killing civilians?
CRConrad 5y ago
> the U.S. upholds much stricter rules of engagement than any of its enemies Hm, good so far... > (hell, even stricter than our cops). Muahahahahaa! You just blew your own argument out of the water.

justicezyx 5y ago

> Our military certainly makes mistakes, and people should be held accountable, but on the other hand the U.S. upholds much stricter rules of engagement than any of its enemies (hell, even stricter than our cops). Should credit not be given for that? Why comparing with enemies? Should one or an org strive to be the best according to a universal standard?

realce 5y ago

> but on the other hand the U.S. upholds much stricter rules of engagement than any of its enemies (hell, even stricter than our cops). Should credit not be given for that? In all honesty and at the very minimum, being criticized openly and fairly for atrocities is the cost of being seen as capable of virtuous military action. The older I get though, the less objective distinction I see. I'm sure that's how the dead felt in their last moment as well. Just look at the last US bombing in Afghanistan where they hit the car full of water and children. We like to act like there's a higher standard, but who will ever be held accountable for that mistake? Nobody.

queuebert 5y ago
I'm ashamed to admit I forgot about that once the news cycle moved on. Someone should definitely be held accountable, especially since all evidence points to it not even being an honest mistake, but rather a PR move made against the advice of ground commanders.
- tinco 5y ago
  It was Biden who was accountable. What are we gonna do, hold re-elections? Just after the democracy was shaken to its core by the January 6th attack? Hand over the control to the republicans who have shown themselves to be absolutely incapable of formulating rational thought or speaking the truth to their own voter base? Admit that the democratic party is so thoroughly corrupt that even after losing the easiest election in US history to a buffoon, they could not come up with a candidate with the smallest amount of integrity or backbone, and pushed up some guy who would step over the bodies of children just for a shot of giving the illusion that the US is actually in control of the rushed evacuation from a war he's been losing for a decade.

janto 5y ago

A free media forms part of what keeps a Western military to stricter rules of engagement.

mongol 5y ago

Yes but credit should not be given for their mistakes.

pozdnyshev90 5y ago

>but on the other hand the U.S. upholds much stricter rules of engagement than any of its enemies And where did you hear that from? Our "independent" papers of record aka state department stenographers?

dundarious 5y ago

If a country uses military force beyond its borders far more than any other nation (let's ignore actual border/territorial disputes), I don't think it deserves much credit for being, let's say, only 90% as brutal (which I would dispute as well, but it would take really getting into the weeds -- start off with some examples from https://archive.md/20211006055938/https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/09/13/the-other-afghan-women https://archive.md/20211006055938/https://www.newyorker.com/...).

lawn 5y ago

> the U.S. upholds much stricter rules of engagement than any of its enemies (hell, even stricter than our cops). Is that a joke?

tinco 5y ago

As awful as the cops relatively often are, I've never heard of one "accidentily" killing a bunch of kids because they were near a white pick-up truck. The wrong pick-up truck by the way, it didn't even have terrorists in it. And that's just one example from dozens many we only know about because of Assange's hard work. And with regards to the enemies of the U.S., and their "rules of engagement" it's quite likely they don't adhere to any, but I don't know how much worse that is than "attack without warning on there being a 1/100 chance of you being a terrorist who is not even near any US asset".

choward 5y ago

> the U.S. upholds much stricter rules of engagement than any of its enemies Where is your evidence of this? I can't remember the last time a drone attacked US soil and killed innocent civilians. And have you actually seen the main video that Assange released with Apaches killing civilians?

CRConrad 5y ago

> the U.S. upholds much stricter rules of engagement than any of its enemies Hm, good so far... > (hell, even stricter than our cops). Muahahahahaa! You just blew your own argument out of the water.