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I have also found that the simple propaganda tactic of telling the same thing several times, almost literally word-for-word the same, works. People will start t

I have also found that the simple propaganda tactic of telling the same thing several times, almost literally word-for-word the same, works. People will start to show understanding. It's almost miraculous, going from blank stares to collaboration in three repetitions of the simplest problem explanation.

techbio 5y ago
By simply telling people the same thing several times, almost literally word-for-word, people will go from blank stares almost miraculously to collaborating with and understanding the simplest explanations. Or else.
- philipswood 5y ago
  Ah. Now I get it! By repeating something to people a few times you can get them to start to absorb it and eventually understand it.
  - stouset 5y ago
    That's correct. It's a simple propaganda tactic but telling someone the same thing several times, almost literally word-for-word the same, works. People will start to show understanding.
    - native_samples 5y ago
      I think you missed the sarcasm here. techbio's point is that by repeating something over and over, you aren't necessarily convincing people, you're just making it clear that non-belief or arguing with you about it is a dead end and they have to comply. Then you mistake their parroting your own words back at you for 'understanding'.
      - stouset 5y ago
        You might want to consider reading this thread a little more carefully. There's a point you may be missing. :)
      - thesz 5y ago
        If I may, I would like to tell you a couple of anecdotes from a colleague of mine and myself, which lead me to notice what is going on (and made fun of up there). That former colleague of mine, being student, once had to make presentation for Sociopsychology (some complex area outside of tech student typical field of expertise) class and he has two days to do so - he was that lazy. And all he got for his work were two dictionaries, one for Psychology and another for Sociology and nothing else. Frustrated, he repeatedly read dictionaries' definitions of keywords from the theme of his presentation, for three hours straight, as he told me. At the end of that third hour he started to somehow connect these two things together and started to look for other things that he felt are connected to the theme. Next day he had quite solid presentation sprouted from definitions from the dictionaries and common sense and knowledge. He got hard 5 for his work (top score). I myself experience something like that when I tried to understand video compression standard - intermittently reading just glossary for several days brought me enough understanding that actual text of the standard just filled some of the not quite important gaps. Repeating the same thing allows my vis-a-vis to connect dots he or she missed the first time, if the answer is clear misunderstanding. It allows him or her to link what I am trying to convey to his or her experience - with life, code base, user experience, etc. And, of course, repeating not quite sensible things that cannot be ruled outright as nonsense is a propaganda tactic - and this make regular people to fall to a propaganda as they manage to connect dots that were missing.
        cainxinth 5y ago
        I dont dispute that repetition does work to ingrain information. All educators, marketers, and propagandists know that. But changing a deeply held belief, one tied to a person’s identity, is different than teaching a new concept or selling a product a shopper is reluctant to buy. It is more closely tied to political propaganda, but as Hitler proved with the Big Lie, it can change minds there as well. I still prefer deep canvassing. It might not be a good fit for Russia, but in many places, it’s a healthy and mutually beneficial process… assuming of course the mind you are trying to change would actually benefit from the change, e.g., a dialogue that opens up a qanoner to the possibly that they have been duped.
beebmam 5y ago
Humans are complicated. It's likely they're showing something else than understanding, it's just you're not noticing it
- mycall 5y ago
  In this regard, humans are not complicated. Simply, we learn through repetition -- we are creatures of habit.
andrei_says_ 5y ago
1. I get it ;) 2. Wouldn’t then noticing repetitive use of concepts and sound bites a good Litmus test for propaganda? If 2. is correct then what are we going to do about the massive incessant brainwashing of our own population with divisive, dehumanizing. And extremely dangerous propaganda?
- DarylZero 5y ago
  Repeating isn't a proof of "propaganda." Repetition is used heavily in education. I am also constantly telling my kids the same thing over and over again (which makes me question whether repetition really works...)
  - andrei_says_ 5y ago
    As a former parenting educator, what works, in order of influence: 1. What you actually do - modeling. In terms of relationships- How you act toward them or how they see you act toward their sibling or your partner. For example if you reward or punish them, the lesson is not the particular goal of the rewarding / punishment, but to use reward and punishments to get people to do what one wants. All rewards and punishments are a form of bullying, violent in nature, leading to loss of trust. 2. Observed actions are the top influence, followed by instruction, but very far behind. So if you ask them to do something they don’t see you do, or see you, or your partner or other adults do differently, then the repetition won’t make much of a difference. Also, kids are placed in circumstances without much autonomy which leads to a lot of frustration and resistance. The natural state of learning is play directed by one’s own interest and environment. Sitting still in school and for homework, for over 6-8h/day is a completely unnatural and obviously not spontaneous. The willpower a child needs to exert to twist themselves into these normalized but unnatural circumstances, day after day, depletes the executive function as a resource. These are just some vectors of influence to consider with kids :)

techbio 5y ago

By simply telling people the same thing several times, almost literally word-for-word, people will go from blank stares almost miraculously to collaborating with and understanding the simplest explanations. Or else.

philipswood 5y ago
Ah. Now I get it! By repeating something to people a few times you can get them to start to absorb it and eventually understand it.
- stouset 5y ago
  That's correct. It's a simple propaganda tactic but telling someone the same thing several times, almost literally word-for-word the same, works. People will start to show understanding.
  - native_samples 5y ago
    I think you missed the sarcasm here. techbio's point is that by repeating something over and over, you aren't necessarily convincing people, you're just making it clear that non-belief or arguing with you about it is a dead end and they have to comply. Then you mistake their parroting your own words back at you for 'understanding'.
    - stouset 5y ago
      You might want to consider reading this thread a little more carefully. There's a point you may be missing. :)
    - thesz 5y ago
      If I may, I would like to tell you a couple of anecdotes from a colleague of mine and myself, which lead me to notice what is going on (and made fun of up there). That former colleague of mine, being student, once had to make presentation for Sociopsychology (some complex area outside of tech student typical field of expertise) class and he has two days to do so - he was that lazy. And all he got for his work were two dictionaries, one for Psychology and another for Sociology and nothing else. Frustrated, he repeatedly read dictionaries' definitions of keywords from the theme of his presentation, for three hours straight, as he told me. At the end of that third hour he started to somehow connect these two things together and started to look for other things that he felt are connected to the theme. Next day he had quite solid presentation sprouted from definitions from the dictionaries and common sense and knowledge. He got hard 5 for his work (top score). I myself experience something like that when I tried to understand video compression standard - intermittently reading just glossary for several days brought me enough understanding that actual text of the standard just filled some of the not quite important gaps. Repeating the same thing allows my vis-a-vis to connect dots he or she missed the first time, if the answer is clear misunderstanding. It allows him or her to link what I am trying to convey to his or her experience - with life, code base, user experience, etc. And, of course, repeating not quite sensible things that cannot be ruled outright as nonsense is a propaganda tactic - and this make regular people to fall to a propaganda as they manage to connect dots that were missing.
      - cainxinth 5y ago
        I dont dispute that repetition does work to ingrain information. All educators, marketers, and propagandists know that. But changing a deeply held belief, one tied to a person’s identity, is different than teaching a new concept or selling a product a shopper is reluctant to buy. It is more closely tied to political propaganda, but as Hitler proved with the Big Lie, it can change minds there as well. I still prefer deep canvassing. It might not be a good fit for Russia, but in many places, it’s a healthy and mutually beneficial process… assuming of course the mind you are trying to change would actually benefit from the change, e.g., a dialogue that opens up a qanoner to the possibly that they have been duped.

beebmam 5y ago

Humans are complicated. It's likely they're showing something else than understanding, it's just you're not noticing it

mycall 5y ago
In this regard, humans are not complicated. Simply, we learn through repetition -- we are creatures of habit.

andrei_says_ 5y ago

1. I get it ;) 2. Wouldn’t then noticing repetitive use of concepts and sound bites a good Litmus test for propaganda? If 2. is correct then what are we going to do about the massive incessant brainwashing of our own population with divisive, dehumanizing. And extremely dangerous propaganda?

DarylZero 5y ago
Repeating isn't a proof of "propaganda." Repetition is used heavily in education. I am also constantly telling my kids the same thing over and over again (which makes me question whether repetition really works...)
- andrei_says_ 5y ago
  As a former parenting educator, what works, in order of influence: 1. What you actually do - modeling. In terms of relationships- How you act toward them or how they see you act toward their sibling or your partner. For example if you reward or punish them, the lesson is not the particular goal of the rewarding / punishment, but to use reward and punishments to get people to do what one wants. All rewards and punishments are a form of bullying, violent in nature, leading to loss of trust. 2. Observed actions are the top influence, followed by instruction, but very far behind. So if you ask them to do something they don’t see you do, or see you, or your partner or other adults do differently, then the repetition won’t make much of a difference. Also, kids are placed in circumstances without much autonomy which leads to a lot of frustration and resistance. The natural state of learning is play directed by one’s own interest and environment. Sitting still in school and for homework, for over 6-8h/day is a completely unnatural and obviously not spontaneous. The willpower a child needs to exert to twist themselves into these normalized but unnatural circumstances, day after day, depletes the executive function as a resource. These are just some vectors of influence to consider with kids :)