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I think this is probably a modern bias since we tend to under appreciate the sincerity of religious beleif that many people had , historically. I'm not saying e

I think this is probably a modern bias since we tend to under appreciate the sincerity of religious beleif that many people had , historically. I'm not saying everyone did, but many did. I think the rigors of monastic life are also off putting to someone just wanting to hang out. anway, if there is a formula for secular monasticism I would like to see it. In my view, without the orders and vows there is nothing keeping people from leaving - kinda like how communes sort of evapoeate after a while.

usrusr 5y ago
I wasn't trying to imply that they went monastic despite not believing, but something quite consistent with your first paragraph: today we assume that only people form, I don't know, the top percentile in the metric of belief sincerity could even consider the monastic path, the pieousest of the pieous. But back then religion was so much a basic part of everybody's mental model of the world, that I don't believe that anybody would be considered, even by themselves, as "not monk material" for lack of belief. Practical reasons to stick to a worldly path, sure, or incompatible desires, preferences. Or, most importantly, simply better options. But hardly ever lack of belief. Just like today people don't usually become a physicist because they are more convinced than others that gravity exists. Back to secular monasticism: the closest we have are militaries (which have been substitute homes and families for a certain kind of person ever since the invention of standing armies) and the prison system. I wonder if UBI, even a UBI of the very low kind, might end up with something like secular monasticism emerging. Communities with absolute minimalism in terms of individual rooms and all remaining resources (rent and chore hours commitment) put in shared amenities. So many ways to make a setup like that a catastrophic failure, but there might be winning patterns

usrusr 5y ago

I wasn't trying to imply that they went monastic despite not believing, but something quite consistent with your first paragraph: today we assume that only people form, I don't know, the top percentile in the metric of belief sincerity could even consider the monastic path, the pieousest of the pieous. But back then religion was so much a basic part of everybody's mental model of the world, that I don't believe that anybody would be considered, even by themselves, as "not monk material" for lack of belief. Practical reasons to stick to a worldly path, sure, or incompatible desires, preferences. Or, most importantly, simply better options. But hardly ever lack of belief. Just like today people don't usually become a physicist because they are more convinced than others that gravity exists. Back to secular monasticism: the closest we have are militaries (which have been substitute homes and families for a certain kind of person ever since the invention of standing armies) and the prison system. I wonder if UBI, even a UBI of the very low kind, might end up with something like secular monasticism emerging. Communities with absolute minimalism in terms of individual rooms and all remaining resources (rent and chore hours commitment) put in shared amenities. So many ways to make a setup like that a catastrophic failure, but there might be winning patterns