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One of the bad aspects of religions are such restrictions that have no base whatsoever. If we omit this anachronism, Agion Oros, as it's commonly called in Gree

One of the bad aspects of religions are such restrictions that have no base whatsoever. If we omit this anachronism, Agion Oros, as it's commonly called in Greece, is a nice place to visit (Christian men only) with an unspoiled environment and peaceful way of living. It's common for many Greeks to visit at least once this special place (something like Hajj/Hadji), but in recent times this has been declining. There are 20 monasteries [0], not all of them Greek and it's true that there are many daily things performed different than our ways. [0] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Karta_Athos.PNG https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Karta_Athos.PNG

throwawaygal7 5y ago
The monks have no reason that they forbid women? Just cause? INTERESTING.
- dang 5y ago
  If you keep posting flamewar comments we will have to ban this account. We've already had to ask you about this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Grustaf 5y ago
What are these "restrictions that have no base whatsoever"? Are you referring to "Christian men only"? Surely you can see the basis of a male monastery complex only allowing male Christian guests? Would you be equally upset at a Buddhist convent only allowing Buddhist women as guests?
- NKosmatos 5y ago
  No, the problem is not with the rules of the monasteries, but with the rules of our religion against women. There are no Greek Orthodox women priests, despite the fact that we have many women Saints! And just to be clear, I’m against all religions that are discriminating people and putting them into groups.
  - Grustaf 5y ago
    There are no "rules against women". As you note, women can be, and are Saints, which is of course a much greater honour than being a priest. In fact the most highly honoured saint (by a wide margin) is a woman, so clearly the church is not "against women". Becoming a priest is not something you do for your own good, it's not a privilege, it's a calling. Priests exist for the good of society, not for priests themselves, you are viewing things backwards.
cblconfederate 5y ago
> have no base whatsoever Gender segregated monasteries have existed since foreveer. Mt Athos is like one giant monastery in that sense. For religious people there is a base for gender segregation.
- NKosmatos 5y ago
  No problem with monasteries and gender restrictions of religions, but here we’re talking about a huge area (a peninsula)! We have similar restrictions for women in churches located in cities and these are generally accepted and followed, but only on “holly” grounds and not for large areas like Mt Athos.
  - isitdopamine 5y ago
    There are so many peninsulas owned by rich people, and they get to choose who can enter. I don’t see a big difference here… It’s private, get over it!
bobthechef 5y ago
You're a victim of the biases and presumptions of your own egalitarian culture. There is a basis. Men and women are different and sexually complementary. One obvious reason is that the sexual tension and constant presence of people of the opposite sex (female orders exclude men also) and subsequent temptation and stirred concupiscence can be a distraction to the spiritual life. But the tendency for sex segregation occurs naturally. People tend to befriend people of their own sex because of an affinity of similarity, not complementarity. This is an important distinction.
- sneak 5y ago
  The concept that sexual tension/activity and a spiritual life are at odds or mutually exclusive is itself a bias and presumption.
  - isitdopamine 5y ago
    For most religions this is a well established fact. As for every spiritual/faith decision you are free to think otherwise, but calling it a bias seems very ungenerous.
    - sneak 5y ago
      It's about as good a "fact" as other "well established fact[s]" in most religions, i.e. not a fact at all, but merely a strong tradition/assertion from authority.
      - isitdopamine 5y ago
        Still not a bias, but a consequence of a system of values.
- dang 5y ago
  Edit: it looks like your account has been using HN primarily for ideological and religious arguments. We ban accounts that do that (https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=primarily%20test%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...), because it destroys what this site is supposed to be for. I don't particularly want to ban you, but you've been doing this so consistently that I don't think we have much choice, especially since this problem has been going on for years: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24256558 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24256558 (Aug 2020) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21368015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21368015 (Oct 2019) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16494736 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16494736 (March 2018) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16349201 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16349201 (Feb 2018) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10916584 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10916584 (Jan 2016) If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. ----- original comment: ------- Please don't take HN threads further into generic ideological flamewar. That's just what we're trying to avoid here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=generic%20ideolog%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

throwawaygal7 5y ago

The monks have no reason that they forbid women? Just cause? INTERESTING.

dang 5y ago
If you keep posting flamewar comments we will have to ban this account. We've already had to ask you about this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Grustaf 5y ago

What are these "restrictions that have no base whatsoever"? Are you referring to "Christian men only"? Surely you can see the basis of a male monastery complex only allowing male Christian guests? Would you be equally upset at a Buddhist convent only allowing Buddhist women as guests?

NKosmatos 5y ago
No, the problem is not with the rules of the monasteries, but with the rules of our religion against women. There are no Greek Orthodox women priests, despite the fact that we have many women Saints! And just to be clear, I’m against all religions that are discriminating people and putting them into groups.
- Grustaf 5y ago
  There are no "rules against women". As you note, women can be, and are Saints, which is of course a much greater honour than being a priest. In fact the most highly honoured saint (by a wide margin) is a woman, so clearly the church is not "against women". Becoming a priest is not something you do for your own good, it's not a privilege, it's a calling. Priests exist for the good of society, not for priests themselves, you are viewing things backwards.

cblconfederate 5y ago

> have no base whatsoever Gender segregated monasteries have existed since foreveer. Mt Athos is like one giant monastery in that sense. For religious people there is a base for gender segregation.

NKosmatos 5y ago
No problem with monasteries and gender restrictions of religions, but here we’re talking about a huge area (a peninsula)! We have similar restrictions for women in churches located in cities and these are generally accepted and followed, but only on “holly” grounds and not for large areas like Mt Athos.
- isitdopamine 5y ago
  There are so many peninsulas owned by rich people, and they get to choose who can enter. I don’t see a big difference here… It’s private, get over it!

bobthechef 5y ago

You're a victim of the biases and presumptions of your own egalitarian culture. There is a basis. Men and women are different and sexually complementary. One obvious reason is that the sexual tension and constant presence of people of the opposite sex (female orders exclude men also) and subsequent temptation and stirred concupiscence can be a distraction to the spiritual life. But the tendency for sex segregation occurs naturally. People tend to befriend people of their own sex because of an affinity of similarity, not complementarity. This is an important distinction.

sneak 5y ago
The concept that sexual tension/activity and a spiritual life are at odds or mutually exclusive is itself a bias and presumption.
- isitdopamine 5y ago
  For most religions this is a well established fact. As for every spiritual/faith decision you are free to think otherwise, but calling it a bias seems very ungenerous.
  - sneak 5y ago
    It's about as good a "fact" as other "well established fact[s]" in most religions, i.e. not a fact at all, but merely a strong tradition/assertion from authority.
    - isitdopamine 5y ago
      Still not a bias, but a consequence of a system of values.
dang 5y ago
Edit: it looks like your account has been using HN primarily for ideological and religious arguments. We ban accounts that do that (https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=primarily%20test%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...), because it destroys what this site is supposed to be for. I don't particularly want to ban you, but you've been doing this so consistently that I don't think we have much choice, especially since this problem has been going on for years: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24256558 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24256558 (Aug 2020) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21368015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21368015 (Oct 2019) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16494736 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16494736 (March 2018) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16349201 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16349201 (Feb 2018) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10916584 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10916584 (Jan 2016) If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. ----- original comment: ------- Please don't take HN threads further into generic ideological flamewar. That's just what we're trying to avoid here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=generic%20ideolog%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...