4 ms·

I think a lot about the right to be a monk. It solves a lot of other human rights issues along the way. Monks create their own food, have a place to live and wo

• the_only_law 5y ago
  Who is stopping them again?
  • Mizza 5y ago
    I am an atheist. I still want to monk. I want to monk in my own way, which would probably be growing vegetables, keeping chickens, and making open source software. I don't see how that's possible given the way society is currently organized - it requires periods of time spent to commercial toil, in order to pay landlords, taxes, etc.
    • gambiting 5y ago
      So I'm trying of think of something monastery like, but without the religious aspect, and I'm really drawing a blank. Since you basically surrender your life to the community and ultimately to whoever is leading it, the religious element seems almost necessary to make this work. I think the only exceptions to this are probably something like the military or meditation/yoga practice communities - but they almost inevitably come with religious elements to them(although in some you can be much more lax about actually subscribing to the spiritual elements).
      • ModernMech 5y ago
        Why doesn’t academia fit the bill? They even have funny robes and hats.
        • the_only_law 5y ago
          Isn’t one of the big problems with academia that you’re still heavily beholden to economic interests? See: all the talk on HN about research being about quantity over quality. At least in the US, it’s also incredibly expensive, especially if you’re not part of target demographic whose spent some years optimizing to reduce that cost.
          • ModernMech 5y ago
            If your goal is to be a top researcher at a top university, yeah economic interests are a top concern. If instead you just want to study and be left alone, there's plenty of room for that. For instance you can just study and then teach what you study, then do it again the next day. As long as you teach enough students to cover your salary (not hard), then there's a place for you.
            • vajrabum 5y ago
              I'm guessing you haven't talked to many adjuncts. The academic life is far from easy for most these days. See here for an example. https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2019/04/adjunct-professors-higher-education-thea-hunter/586168/ https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2019/04/adjunc...
              • ModernMech 5y ago
                I'm a professor and I talk with a lot of adjuncts. I'm not saying it's easy, and I don't think the OP of this thread was looking for an easy life. They wanted a life free of commercial toil in which they could devote themselves to raising chickens and open source work. If that's all you want to do, you can do this on an adjunct's salary. No commercial work necessary, just teaching people what you know. If you want to raise a family of 4, own property and cars, dine out, and do all the normal things that most adjuncts want to do, then yeah, that job won't afford you the life that you're looking for. Also I will note that this piece is conflating the adjunct position with the property of being non-tenured. In fact there are many non-tenured positions that are not adjunct positions, and they can pay much more. These can be called among other things, "instructor" or "research faculty" or "visiting professor".
      • jacobmartin 5y ago
        The Glass Bead Game (aka Magister Ludi) by Herman Hesse is more or less about a secular monastery. I highly recommend it.
    • the_only_law 5y ago
      Oh, ok. Religions seem to get a lot of legacy exceptions in society whether that be something like you described here, certain Native American peoples having freedom to use certain otherwise controlled substances, or like someone else mentioned a waiver for the “no women allowed” thing.
    • neaden 5y ago
      Sounds like you want to join a commune? You could look into that.
    • martythemaniak 5y ago
      I think you're underestimating the extent to which monasteries are commercial, and have been for many many centuries. You don't go there to chill, you go there to work hard and earn money for the monastery. In past times, they were helped along because they were given a monopoly over certain economic activities. Getting a job at a sclerotic state-owned enterprise is probably the closest equivalent today.
      • Mizza 5y ago
        The point is not to LARP as a 15th century monk, the point is to live a non-commercial life of quiet, focused service.
        • martythemaniak 5y ago
          I dig it, I just think monk is the wrong model.
    • prometheus76 5y ago
      Monks work for their living. They make soaps, candles, bread, icons, prayer ropes, translations of holy books, etc. There are cooks, and they rebuild/repair the buildings. Their work is generally more "local", but one of the ways the monasteries survive is by selling their goods to the outer world. The main reason for being a monk is to crucify one's ego each day in obedience to one's spiritual father and more importantly, to God. "I want to monk my own way" completely undermines the whole way of life of a monk.
    • toast0 5y ago
      In order to monk, you need a sponsor. Religious monks may have a sponsor in their religious organization (although their commercial activities may make them self-sufficient or often self-sufficient). As an atheist monk, you'd need to find someone or group to sponsor you, or do it yourself. If you're raising chickens and growing vegetables, you may qualify your property to be taxed as a farm, which typically is a much reduced rate than a property with just a home. If you monk out in the countryside, the property is likely to be inexpensive to start with. There's some amount of commercial utility to chickens (and their eggs) and vegetables, so you might be able to make your sponsorship go farther.