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> none of the “crimes” happened on US soil He is charged with helping Chelsea Manning to hack into a government computer which did happen on US soil. “ they c

> none of the “crimes” happened on US soil He is charged with helping Chelsea Manning to hack into a government computer which did happen on US soil. “ they charged him with conspiring to commit unlawful computer intrusion based on his alleged agreement to try to help Ms. Manning break an encoded portion of passcode that would have permitted her to log on to a classified military network under another user’s identity.” https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/11/world/europe/julian-assange-wikileaks-ecuador-embassy.html?referringSource=articleShare https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/11/world/europe/julian-assan...

ianhawes 5y ago
> He is charged with helping Chelsea Manning to hack into a government computer which did happen on US soil. IIRC Manning was in Iraq at this time. Were servers they accessed in the US? Probably. But that would be a crime Manning committed.
- zepto 5y ago
  > a crime Manning committed. With Assange as an accomplice.
  - choward 5y ago
    There is no evidence of this.
    - zepto 5y ago
      I don’t think you know that, and ultimately it will he decided in court.
- tristan957 5y ago
  The land that a foreign military base sits on is within the jurisdiction of the US.
  - Dah00n 5y ago
    That is irrelevant if the hacker isn't at the base or in the US. This here is US law being applied outside the US to someone doing something outside the US while not being a US citizen. There not a single way to twist and turn this where it is lawful to apply it to Assange. It's just another corrupt court bending its knee.
- jjulius 5y ago
  >IIRC Manning was in Iraq at this time. Were servers they accessed in the US? Probably. Should the military personnel who were responsible for abusing prisoners in Abu Ghraib not have been charged with crimes because they weren't in the US?
  - boomboomsubban 5y ago
    I don't think they were tried for crimes in a US court, they faced a court martial.
4bpp 5y ago
The implications of defining an action as "happening on US soil" whenever it had an effect that involved mere data that was situated on US soil also seem troubling, and it's easy to imagine only slightly less clear cause-and-effect relationships from actions to data that would, under this interpretation, suggest extradition to a hostile jurisdiction. For example, Germany is well known to strictly prohibit and penalise the public display of Nazi symbols. Suppose some US citizen posted unicode swastikas in a game chat (while living in the UK), as kids seem to like to do, and this chat log got replicated on a German server, putting it in violation of German law, and now Germany wanted to throw the book at them (3 years of jail or so). Should the UK extradite this person to Germany? Would it have any bearing on this whether the kid did this with the intention of trolling Germans in game (and perhaps the awareness that it is not legal for them to display the symbol)? For an even juicier version of this scenario, imagine that we are instead considering the case of an American journalist who tweeted some of the edgier activist-journalist rhetoric (of the "kill all $privileged_group" type) to weigh in on some German domestic dispute. This just so happened to fall afoul of Germany's domestic laws on inciting racial hatred, and the message got replicated on whatever servers Twitter's CDN has there. The intent (to reach Germans) would be there, and a crime (having a public-facing computer server display an incitement to racial hatred) would have happened on German soil. How would you feel about the US journalist being extradited from the UK to Germany to face jail time?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
choward 5y ago
There is no evidence he helped her. Their main witness was a pedophile who lied to try get his own charges lessened. There is no case against Assange. The allegations are bogus.
- jjulius 5y ago
  > Their main witness was a pedophile who lied to try get his own charges lessened. As far as I understand it, that witness admitted to lying about a lot, but I can't find where he ever was the witness to Assange helping Manning, or that he even claimed it happened. The original article[1] that exposed Thordarson's lies doesn't even mention that; it's only tangentially tied to the claim that Assange was Manning's accomplice because they used it to say, "See? He helped Thordarson, too". As far as I know, we don't yet know what other proof the government may have that Assange helped Manning along the way simply because there hasn't been a trial yet. Until that happens, it's impossible to say that there is no proof. Please correct me if I'm wrong. [1]https://stundin.is/grein/13627/ https://stundin.is/grein/13627/
- plandis 5y ago
  Are you saying this after reviewing all the evidence that the department of justice has or…?
belorn 5y ago
With the pirate bay case and servers being on Swedish soil, any one who uploaded a copyrighted file helped the founders breaking copyright law. This mean millions of people, many located in the US, could be extradited to Sweden to face their crime they committed there. How funny the world would be if laws was enforced equally.

ianhawes 5y ago

> He is charged with helping Chelsea Manning to hack into a government computer which did happen on US soil. IIRC Manning was in Iraq at this time. Were servers they accessed in the US? Probably. But that would be a crime Manning committed.

zepto 5y ago
> a crime Manning committed. With Assange as an accomplice.
- choward 5y ago
  There is no evidence of this.
  - zepto 5y ago
    I don’t think you know that, and ultimately it will he decided in court.
tristan957 5y ago
The land that a foreign military base sits on is within the jurisdiction of the US.
- Dah00n 5y ago
  That is irrelevant if the hacker isn't at the base or in the US. This here is US law being applied outside the US to someone doing something outside the US while not being a US citizen. There not a single way to twist and turn this where it is lawful to apply it to Assange. It's just another corrupt court bending its knee.
jjulius 5y ago
>IIRC Manning was in Iraq at this time. Were servers they accessed in the US? Probably. Should the military personnel who were responsible for abusing prisoners in Abu Ghraib not have been charged with crimes because they weren't in the US?
- boomboomsubban 5y ago
  I don't think they were tried for crimes in a US court, they faced a court martial.

4bpp 5y ago

The implications of defining an action as "happening on US soil" whenever it had an effect that involved mere data that was situated on US soil also seem troubling, and it's easy to imagine only slightly less clear cause-and-effect relationships from actions to data that would, under this interpretation, suggest extradition to a hostile jurisdiction. For example, Germany is well known to strictly prohibit and penalise the public display of Nazi symbols. Suppose some US citizen posted unicode swastikas in a game chat (while living in the UK), as kids seem to like to do, and this chat log got replicated on a German server, putting it in violation of German law, and now Germany wanted to throw the book at them (3 years of jail or so). Should the UK extradite this person to Germany? Would it have any bearing on this whether the kid did this with the intention of trolling Germans in game (and perhaps the awareness that it is not legal for them to display the symbol)? For an even juicier version of this scenario, imagine that we are instead considering the case of an American journalist who tweeted some of the edgier activist-journalist rhetoric (of the "kill all $privileged_group" type) to weigh in on some German domestic dispute. This just so happened to fall afoul of Germany's domestic laws on inciting racial hatred, and the message got replicated on whatever servers Twitter's CDN has there. The intent (to reach Germans) would be there, and a crime (having a public-facing computer server display an incitement to racial hatred) would have happened on German soil. How would you feel about the US journalist being extradited from the UK to Germany to face jail time?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

choward 5y ago

There is no evidence he helped her. Their main witness was a pedophile who lied to try get his own charges lessened. There is no case against Assange. The allegations are bogus.

jjulius 5y ago
> Their main witness was a pedophile who lied to try get his own charges lessened. As far as I understand it, that witness admitted to lying about a lot, but I can't find where he ever was the witness to Assange helping Manning, or that he even claimed it happened. The original article[1] that exposed Thordarson's lies doesn't even mention that; it's only tangentially tied to the claim that Assange was Manning's accomplice because they used it to say, "See? He helped Thordarson, too". As far as I know, we don't yet know what other proof the government may have that Assange helped Manning along the way simply because there hasn't been a trial yet. Until that happens, it's impossible to say that there is no proof. Please correct me if I'm wrong. [1]https://stundin.is/grein/13627/ https://stundin.is/grein/13627/
plandis 5y ago
Are you saying this after reviewing all the evidence that the department of justice has or…?

belorn 5y ago

With the pirate bay case and servers being on Swedish soil, any one who uploaded a copyrighted file helped the founders breaking copyright law. This mean millions of people, many located in the US, could be extradited to Sweden to face their crime they committed there. How funny the world would be if laws was enforced equally.