3 ms·

Overage hours? Job-less risk? Career risk and opportunity cost? What? You seem to be including those numbers as his 'cost', are you assuming he's not getting be

Overage hours? Job-less risk? Career risk and opportunity cost? What? You seem to be including those numbers as his 'cost', are you assuming he's not getting benefits, or that he's going to work only 40 hours a week at this mythical 100k / year job? There's nothing at all mythical about a 100k / year job where you work 40 hours a week. There are plenty of coders out there making at least that much by pumping out enterprise Java 9 to 5 for insurance companies and banks. You don't even have to be very good, you just need to not completely suck, stick around for long enough, and know when and how to ask for more money...hell, if you go the consulting route, you can make that much on a 20 hour work week at $100 an hour, which is not very difficult to get to if you're good and pick the right clients. I'd love for someone to prove me wrong by pointing out a startup that's given 20% to their first employee after raising a seed round. You won't likely find that. But what you will find is startups that are willing to offer their early employees wages fairly close to market rates (though to be fair, we don't know in this situation whether the person in question's salary was near typical market rates, we just know that he was deciding whether to take a 50% cut in it), which is (if I'm reading correctly) what the article is suggesting people look for rather than settling for shitty wages and delusions of Facebook-level growth. I can't think of many people in real life that have ever seen much more than a nice bonus as the result of employee-level ownership in a company, and I think that's the lesson to take away from this - equity should not usually be a deciding factor in your employment decisions, nobody's typically going to offer you enough for it to matter very much.

ctide 15y ago
There's nothing at all mythical about a 100k / year job where you work 40 hours a week. There are plenty of coders out there making at least that much by pumping out enterprise Java 9 to 5 for insurance companies and banks. You don't even have to be very good, you just need to not completely suck, stick around for long enough, and know when and how to ask for more money...hell, if you go the consulting route, you can make that much on a 20 hour work week at $100 an hour, which is not very difficult to get to if you're good and pick the right clients. Those are not the people we're discussing. Those people aren't deciding whether to work 9 to 5 writing java for an insurance company or go work for a startup as employee #1. Yes, you can make lots of money consulting. I spent a year doing nothing but consulting. It's mind-numbingly painful work. Apples to oranges. But what you will find is startups that are willing to offer their early employees wages fairly close to market rates (though to be fair, we don't know in this situation whether the person in question's salary was near typical market rates, we just know that he was deciding whether to take a 50% cut in it), which is (if I'm reading correctly) what the article is suggesting people look for rather than settling for shitty wages and delusions of Facebook-level growth. I think you'll find this is much rarer than you think. Most startups, especially YC companies for what it's worth, are offering exactly what's mentioned in this article at that stage. While it's totally ridiculous, it's currently the state of the world. Sure, it sucks, but asking for 20% is going to get you laughed out the door.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- michaelochurch 15y ago
  While it's totally ridiculous, it's currently the state of the world. Sure, it sucks, but asking for 20% is going to get you laughed out the door. If getting laughed out the door is a problem for you, you're not cut out for startups. Not getting a job when it's a lowball offer is nothing major to worry about.
wpietri 15y ago
> pumping out enterprise Java 9 to 5 for insurance companies This is true, but it's also true that startup founders can make a lot more money working some equally shitty job. No reasonable person should join a startup based purely on financial comparison with other jobs. For me, I'm doing it because I learn more, have more control, put up with less bullshit, and have more chance of making a difference in the world.

ctide 15y ago

There's nothing at all mythical about a 100k / year job where you work 40 hours a week. There are plenty of coders out there making at least that much by pumping out enterprise Java 9 to 5 for insurance companies and banks. You don't even have to be very good, you just need to not completely suck, stick around for long enough, and know when and how to ask for more money...hell, if you go the consulting route, you can make that much on a 20 hour work week at $100 an hour, which is not very difficult to get to if you're good and pick the right clients. Those are not the people we're discussing. Those people aren't deciding whether to work 9 to 5 writing java for an insurance company or go work for a startup as employee #1. Yes, you can make lots of money consulting. I spent a year doing nothing but consulting. It's mind-numbingly painful work. Apples to oranges. But what you will find is startups that are willing to offer their early employees wages fairly close to market rates (though to be fair, we don't know in this situation whether the person in question's salary was near typical market rates, we just know that he was deciding whether to take a 50% cut in it), which is (if I'm reading correctly) what the article is suggesting people look for rather than settling for shitty wages and delusions of Facebook-level growth. I think you'll find this is much rarer than you think. Most startups, especially YC companies for what it's worth, are offering exactly what's mentioned in this article at that stage. While it's totally ridiculous, it's currently the state of the world. Sure, it sucks, but asking for 20% is going to get you laughed out the door.

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
michaelochurch 15y ago
While it's totally ridiculous, it's currently the state of the world. Sure, it sucks, but asking for 20% is going to get you laughed out the door. If getting laughed out the door is a problem for you, you're not cut out for startups. Not getting a job when it's a lowball offer is nothing major to worry about.

wpietri 15y ago

> pumping out enterprise Java 9 to 5 for insurance companies This is true, but it's also true that startup founders can make a lot more money working some equally shitty job. No reasonable person should join a startup based purely on financial comparison with other jobs. For me, I'm doing it because I learn more, have more control, put up with less bullshit, and have more chance of making a difference in the world.