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>It’s the whole complex web of laws and regulations that created these policies that make them real, and the people (your fellow citizens) who have collectively

>It’s the whole complex web of laws and regulations that created these policies that make them real, and the people (your fellow citizens) who have collectively decided to run society by these rules. Don't forget the whole violent kidnapping thing your fellow citizens let governments do. The mythology of laws running society is cute but laws are made real by constant threats of violence and caging.

ogogmad 5y ago
Your comment is a kind of virtue signalling. What is your alternative? To not jail murderers or thieves? [edit] Just to check if you're serious or not, would you be happy to move next to a prison and then have all the inmates released?
- mattsahr 5y ago
  To someone with a hammer, every problem is a nail. Web3 seems like it's primarily a horde of crypto-maxis running around hitting every damn thing with a smart contract, and see what sticks. This is, arguably, going to be better than violently caging people, in some circumstances. I take the GF comment to be maybe virtue-signally, but mostly pointing out that our legacy law system has an awwwwwful lot of people in jail. Maybe that jail-shaped hammer is not as useful as you think it is?
  - pennaMan 5y ago
    What is the virtue that I am signaling? Is the ability to have objective opinions outside of the socio-cultural mythology a virtue? To give another perspective on my "the current legal system exclusively works via the use of force" argument, look how effective the legal system is against banks, Google, Facebook, etc where use of forceful caging is not applied.
- pennaMan 5y ago
  What virtue am I signalling? Are objective observations about how the world and society functions considered some kind of virtue now? I was responding to the argument that "courts" and "fellow citizens" make the legal system work, when in fact courts are just proxies for use of force. Use of force makes the legal system work, everything else around it is just the cushy stories about law, order and justice we cooked up for ourselves to collectively agree with. And this is in stark contrast to how a contract running on the Ethereum VM gets enforced. I am certainly not suggesting we should implement laws against violence like the murderers you mention on a blockchain. I am talking about laws governing financial transactions, companies, and other economic related activities between nonviolent but nonetheless potentially fraudulent actors.
immibis 5y ago
what other enforcement mechanism do you suggest? The smart contract method call where Alice murders Bob should not validate unless signed by Bob's private key?
- ogogmad 5y ago
  Yes, and this will stop people from harming each other. Something something private keys. Bring on the century of techno utopianism.
  - pennaMan 5y ago
    If you really want to mock novel technology, at least show some basic understanding first. It's "something something decentralized proof of trust" ;)
- pennaMan 5y ago
  Are you argumenting in good faith that somehow I said that violent crimes should be solved by mathematics? I said that the legal system works not because of it's complexities or how authoritative the costumes of law enforcement or judges look, but exclusively by the threat of having your liberty taken away from you. Violent offenders should still be dealt with violence. But voting? Public policy? Public spending tracking? Economic activity between two private entities? There is no longer need for the threat of a central authority with a monopoly on violence to ensure the proper functioning of those things. Satoshi showed we can have decentralized proof of trust.

ogogmad 5y ago

Your comment is a kind of virtue signalling. What is your alternative? To not jail murderers or thieves? [edit] Just to check if you're serious or not, would you be happy to move next to a prison and then have all the inmates released?

mattsahr 5y ago
To someone with a hammer, every problem is a nail. Web3 seems like it's primarily a horde of crypto-maxis running around hitting every damn thing with a smart contract, and see what sticks. This is, arguably, going to be better than violently caging people, in some circumstances. I take the GF comment to be maybe virtue-signally, but mostly pointing out that our legacy law system has an awwwwwful lot of people in jail. Maybe that jail-shaped hammer is not as useful as you think it is?
- pennaMan 5y ago
  What is the virtue that I am signaling? Is the ability to have objective opinions outside of the socio-cultural mythology a virtue? To give another perspective on my "the current legal system exclusively works via the use of force" argument, look how effective the legal system is against banks, Google, Facebook, etc where use of forceful caging is not applied.
pennaMan 5y ago
What virtue am I signalling? Are objective observations about how the world and society functions considered some kind of virtue now? I was responding to the argument that "courts" and "fellow citizens" make the legal system work, when in fact courts are just proxies for use of force. Use of force makes the legal system work, everything else around it is just the cushy stories about law, order and justice we cooked up for ourselves to collectively agree with. And this is in stark contrast to how a contract running on the Ethereum VM gets enforced. I am certainly not suggesting we should implement laws against violence like the murderers you mention on a blockchain. I am talking about laws governing financial transactions, companies, and other economic related activities between nonviolent but nonetheless potentially fraudulent actors.

immibis 5y ago

what other enforcement mechanism do you suggest? The smart contract method call where Alice murders Bob should not validate unless signed by Bob's private key?

ogogmad 5y ago
Yes, and this will stop people from harming each other. Something something private keys. Bring on the century of techno utopianism.
- pennaMan 5y ago
  If you really want to mock novel technology, at least show some basic understanding first. It's "something something decentralized proof of trust" ;)
pennaMan 5y ago
Are you argumenting in good faith that somehow I said that violent crimes should be solved by mathematics? I said that the legal system works not because of it's complexities or how authoritative the costumes of law enforcement or judges look, but exclusively by the threat of having your liberty taken away from you. Violent offenders should still be dealt with violence. But voting? Public policy? Public spending tracking? Economic activity between two private entities? There is no longer need for the threat of a central authority with a monopoly on violence to ensure the proper functioning of those things. Satoshi showed we can have decentralized proof of trust.