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Its just incredible how bloated Log4J is. You'd think a logging library would be rather lightweight, straightforward to configure, no? No, it is one of those e

Its just incredible how bloated Log4J is. You'd think a logging library would be rather lightweight, straightforward to configure, no? No, it is one of those efforts that suffer from their underlying problem being so well understood that, apparently, everybody working on it feels compelled to "enrich" it with more options, config layers, adapters, extensions.

immibis 5y ago
Well yes, when you have a project that does 99% of what you need, you add the other 1% to the project instead of starting a whole new project. This is just how all software evolves.
- christophilus 5y ago
  It’s our jobs as engineers to say no, and to try to fight that kitchen-sink tendency. It’s exhausting work, though, and I admit to just caving at work from time to time.
- jallen_dot_dev 5y ago
  Or you separately implement this feature that only you need. Instead of asking for it to be supported out-of-the-box by this very popular library where it'll operate unbeknownst to everyone else.
phendrenad2 5y ago
I talked to a guy once who was a "hibernate expert". On his desk he had about 10 books on Hibernate. Coming from the Ruby world, I was amazed and perplexed. Is Hibernate really that much more complex than ActiveRecord? Of course it isn't. But someone benefits complex frameworks and libraries, and libraries that are over-documented to the point of absurdity. Who benefits is Java developers. Java is a simple to learn language, and almost everyone learns it in college. As a result, competition at the entry level is fierce. You can't break into Java development coming out of college without rote memorization of Java builtin classes, knowing Hibernate and log4j like the back of your hand, and knowing all of the latest acronyms and buzzwords. This provides a cushy barrier to entry so people who survive that can stay employed without risk from cheaper incoming developers.

immibis 5y ago

Well yes, when you have a project that does 99% of what you need, you add the other 1% to the project instead of starting a whole new project. This is just how all software evolves.

christophilus 5y ago
It’s our jobs as engineers to say no, and to try to fight that kitchen-sink tendency. It’s exhausting work, though, and I admit to just caving at work from time to time.
jallen_dot_dev 5y ago
Or you separately implement this feature that only you need. Instead of asking for it to be supported out-of-the-box by this very popular library where it'll operate unbeknownst to everyone else.

phendrenad2 5y ago

I talked to a guy once who was a "hibernate expert". On his desk he had about 10 books on Hibernate. Coming from the Ruby world, I was amazed and perplexed. Is Hibernate really that much more complex than ActiveRecord? Of course it isn't. But someone benefits complex frameworks and libraries, and libraries that are over-documented to the point of absurdity. Who benefits is Java developers. Java is a simple to learn language, and almost everyone learns it in college. As a result, competition at the entry level is fierce. You can't break into Java development coming out of college without rote memorization of Java builtin classes, knowing Hibernate and log4j like the back of your hand, and knowing all of the latest acronyms and buzzwords. This provides a cushy barrier to entry so people who survive that can stay employed without risk from cheaper incoming developers.