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Main takeaways from toying with both Yjs and Automerge: 1. Extremely difficult to build backend in other programming languages than Nodejs Rust implementation

Main takeaways from toying with both Yjs and Automerge: 1. Extremely difficult to build backend in other programming languages than Nodejs Rust implementations https://github.com/automerge/automerge-rs https://github.com/automerge/automerge-rs https://github.com/yjs/y-crdt https://github.com/yjs/y-crdt You will cry looking at source code https://github.com/yjs/y-crdt/blob/main/yffi/src/lib.rs https://github.com/yjs/y-crdt/blob/main/yffi/src/lib.rs C-binding, FFI, etc 2. Both communities are great. Before committing recommend to go through issues and discussions Yjs forum https://discuss.yjs.dev/ https://discuss.yjs.dev/ Automerge Slack https://join.slack.com/t/automerge/shared_invite/zt-e4p3760n-kKh7r3KRH1YwwNfiZM8ktw https://join.slack.com/t/automerge/shared_invite/zt-e4p3760n... 3. Watch out implementations of underline libraries. Trace lib0 libraries usage and internals in Yjs for example https://github.com/yjs/yjs/blob/7bd764fba73fecb8bacd1eb82a4bd7c9e15a33ee/src/utils/ID.js https://github.com/yjs/yjs/blob/7bd764fba73fecb8bacd1eb82a4b... https://github.com/dmonad/lib0 https://github.com/dmonad/lib0 JavaScript engines use UTF-16 encoding. Golang (my main backend language) is using UTF-8 ... reimplementing Yjs code in Golang with algorithms and optimization and futher scaling might become impossible for small startups. Build parallels with Automerge 4. Rich editing similar to Google Doc is very very complicated subject with lot of landmines BitPhinix seems making a progress on updated example https://github.com/BitPhinix/slate-yjs/tree/next https://github.com/BitPhinix/slate-yjs/tree/next However there is a surprise waiting for you on backend https://github.com/BitPhinix/slate-yjs/blob/next/examples/backend/package.json https://github.com/BitPhinix/slate-yjs/blob/next/examples/ba... See "@hocuspocus/server" https://tiptap.dev/hocuspocus/ https://tiptap.dev/hocuspocus/ 5. There's ProseMirror editor for collaborative editing. However you might not like its internals compare to Slatejs (which is far from perfect and lot of people rely on hard forks) Feel free to ping me on Telegram @reactima if you are committed to build something similar to Notion.so or thinking to add collaborating editing with Slatejs and Reactjs. I'm really curious how other people plans to live with Yjs and Automerge impressive foundation.

hanspagel 5y ago
I’m a bit biased, but I think 2022 will be the year of Y.js. What we’ve done or set up for the next year: * The Y-Collective to fund more and more related projects, like slate-yjs: https://opencollective.com/y-collective https://opencollective.com/y-collective * The Hocuspocus backend you've discovered, which will become public in April or so * A cloud offering we’re bootstrapping to hopefully get even more money into the ecosystem * Y.js core support for the Tiptap editor (900k downloads/month), with a lot more advanced features coming next year * More and more frontend libraries, like SyncedStore which was on the frontpage a few days ago: https://syncedstore.org/docs/ https://syncedstore.org/docs/ * The Y.js Rust port: https://github.com/yjs/y-crdt https://github.com/yjs/y-crdt Exciting times!
- mlajtos 5y ago
  CRDTs (and Y.js especially) will deliver what Google Wave promised. Not as a single unifying UI for communication, rather all existing apps can get collaborative power where it makes sense. And that is a game changer for me – as a user and developer. Exciting times indeed!
- melony 5y ago
  How do the performance and features of Yjs compare to Automerge?
  - samwillis 5y ago
    https://github.com/dmonad/crdt-benchmarks https://github.com/dmonad/crdt-benchmarks Not completely up to date I believe but it shows that Yjs significantly outperforms automerge.
  - adeptima 5y ago
    It will depend on your use cases. Better to check updated roadmaps too. The final gap won’t be too big IMHO
- samwillis 5y ago
  I agree with Hans, we are going to see an explosion of collaborative tools next year. And Yjs is best placed to enable them. The ecosystem around Yjs with the Y-collective is so impressive.
- adeptima 5y ago
  I’m biased into Yjs too and bet on it. Yjs Rust port and other simply not ready for the prime and won’t be for a while. Bindings and unsafe Rust is the road to hell
bschne 5y ago
> 4. Rich editing similar to Google Doc is very very complicated subject with lot of landmines They (Ink & Switch) are actually working on that too, see https://www.inkandswitch.com/peritext/ https://www.inkandswitch.com/peritext/
outside1234 5y ago
Wow - you weren't kidding - the rust port is total trash. What is even going on there?
- Horusiath 5y ago
  I'm one of the maintainers of this project: we're happy to hear some constructive feedback and proposals for improvements, so please don't hesitate to speak your mind at github issues: https://github.com/yjs/y-crdt/issues https://github.com/yjs/y-crdt/issues . The internals are still very hot and in a state of flux, as we 1st decided to go with porting the Yjs, then leave cleaning and optimizations for 2nd step after we have something, that's compatible with existing Yjs behavior.
caladin 5y ago
> You will cry looking at source code https://github.com/yjs/y-crdt/blob/main/yffi/src/lib.rs https://github.com/yjs/y-crdt/blob/main/yffi/src/lib.rs Am I missing something? You linked a file that is inherently going to be "un-Rusty" because it's meant to be an FFI shim for _non-Rust_ languages to use through a common C API that this file exposes.

hanspagel 5y ago

I’m a bit biased, but I think 2022 will be the year of Y.js. What we’ve done or set up for the next year: * The Y-Collective to fund more and more related projects, like slate-yjs: https://opencollective.com/y-collective https://opencollective.com/y-collective * The Hocuspocus backend you've discovered, which will become public in April or so * A cloud offering we’re bootstrapping to hopefully get even more money into the ecosystem * Y.js core support for the Tiptap editor (900k downloads/month), with a lot more advanced features coming next year * More and more frontend libraries, like SyncedStore which was on the frontpage a few days ago: https://syncedstore.org/docs/ https://syncedstore.org/docs/ * The Y.js Rust port: https://github.com/yjs/y-crdt https://github.com/yjs/y-crdt Exciting times!

mlajtos 5y ago
CRDTs (and Y.js especially) will deliver what Google Wave promised. Not as a single unifying UI for communication, rather all existing apps can get collaborative power where it makes sense. And that is a game changer for me – as a user and developer. Exciting times indeed!
melony 5y ago
How do the performance and features of Yjs compare to Automerge?
- samwillis 5y ago
  https://github.com/dmonad/crdt-benchmarks https://github.com/dmonad/crdt-benchmarks Not completely up to date I believe but it shows that Yjs significantly outperforms automerge.
- adeptima 5y ago
  It will depend on your use cases. Better to check updated roadmaps too. The final gap won’t be too big IMHO
samwillis 5y ago
I agree with Hans, we are going to see an explosion of collaborative tools next year. And Yjs is best placed to enable them. The ecosystem around Yjs with the Y-collective is so impressive.
adeptima 5y ago
I’m biased into Yjs too and bet on it. Yjs Rust port and other simply not ready for the prime and won’t be for a while. Bindings and unsafe Rust is the road to hell

bschne 5y ago

> 4. Rich editing similar to Google Doc is very very complicated subject with lot of landmines They (Ink & Switch) are actually working on that too, see https://www.inkandswitch.com/peritext/ https://www.inkandswitch.com/peritext/

outside1234 5y ago

Wow - you weren't kidding - the rust port is total trash. What is even going on there?

Horusiath 5y ago
I'm one of the maintainers of this project: we're happy to hear some constructive feedback and proposals for improvements, so please don't hesitate to speak your mind at github issues: https://github.com/yjs/y-crdt/issues https://github.com/yjs/y-crdt/issues . The internals are still very hot and in a state of flux, as we 1st decided to go with porting the Yjs, then leave cleaning and optimizations for 2nd step after we have something, that's compatible with existing Yjs behavior.

caladin 5y ago

> You will cry looking at source code https://github.com/yjs/y-crdt/blob/main/yffi/src/lib.rs https://github.com/yjs/y-crdt/blob/main/yffi/src/lib.rs Am I missing something? You linked a file that is inherently going to be "un-Rusty" because it's meant to be an FFI shim for _non-Rust_ languages to use through a common C API that this file exposes.