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Related to OPs point, Proposition 47 in California reclassified certain thefts under $950 to a misdemeanor instead of a felony. There is evidence that this has

Related to OPs point, Proposition 47 in California reclassified certain thefts under $950 to a misdemeanor instead of a felony. There is evidence that this has resulted in increases in such crimes.

alphabettsy 5y ago
I don’t believe this argument. The dollar amount was $400 previously. Most shoplifting was already under $400 and I’m being asked to believe, from unreliable sources, that changing it to $950 alone changed things? Misdemeanors still carry punishment and possible jail time. What’s missing?
- MisterBastahrd 5y ago
  People with a burning desire to believe that anything that isn't overly punitive is a sign of weakness and moral decay. The sociopaths aren't the ones looking at ridiculous punishments for minor offenses and trying to get them reduced. They're the ones who are held back from committing obvious crimes by criminal penalties, instead of just not being an asshole. A felony for $950 in stolen goods? You're not gonna get that conviction without a court, which means that everyone involved in that chain, from the judge, to the lawyers, to the compensation of the jury, to the bailiff, to the entire police apparatus involved in apprehending and charging them, and so on, is gonna need to be compensated for handling the issue. And that's before any time is served. If you aren't going to try to root out the true cause of why people are stealing, you might as well just throw a ton of money in a giant pit and have a cookout.
- Fervicus 5y ago
  California Property Crime Surge Is Unintended Consequence of Proposition 47: https://www.independent.org/publications/article.asp?id=9417 https://www.independent.org/publications/article.asp?id=9417
  - alphabettsy 5y ago
    It’s a pretty good read and still nothing definitive. When the property crime goes back up to where it was two years before I’m having a hard time seeing anything conclusive. How do I know that police choosing not to pursue or investigate minor property crime after the passage of Prop 47 is not the cause? Maybe it’s part of a greater social and economic shift in the region? Are no other factors to be considered and ruled out? Given the considerable cost of criminalization and incarceration it’s amazing to me that it seems to be the only solution being offered. The author does provide a more holistic solution, but I can’t say I’m anymore convinced about the roughly $500 change making a big difference.

Related to OPs point, Proposition 47 in California reclassified certain thefts under $950 to a misdemeanor instead of a felony. There is evidence that this has resulted in increases in such crimes.

alphabettsy 5y ago

I don’t believe this argument. The dollar amount was $400 previously. Most shoplifting was already under $400 and I’m being asked to believe, from unreliable sources, that changing it to $950 alone changed things? Misdemeanors still carry punishment and possible jail time. What’s missing?

MisterBastahrd 5y ago
People with a burning desire to believe that anything that isn't overly punitive is a sign of weakness and moral decay. The sociopaths aren't the ones looking at ridiculous punishments for minor offenses and trying to get them reduced. They're the ones who are held back from committing obvious crimes by criminal penalties, instead of just not being an asshole. A felony for $950 in stolen goods? You're not gonna get that conviction without a court, which means that everyone involved in that chain, from the judge, to the lawyers, to the compensation of the jury, to the bailiff, to the entire police apparatus involved in apprehending and charging them, and so on, is gonna need to be compensated for handling the issue. And that's before any time is served. If you aren't going to try to root out the true cause of why people are stealing, you might as well just throw a ton of money in a giant pit and have a cookout.
Fervicus 5y ago
California Property Crime Surge Is Unintended Consequence of Proposition 47: https://www.independent.org/publications/article.asp?id=9417 https://www.independent.org/publications/article.asp?id=9417
- alphabettsy 5y ago
  It’s a pretty good read and still nothing definitive. When the property crime goes back up to where it was two years before I’m having a hard time seeing anything conclusive. How do I know that police choosing not to pursue or investigate minor property crime after the passage of Prop 47 is not the cause? Maybe it’s part of a greater social and economic shift in the region? Are no other factors to be considered and ruled out? Given the considerable cost of criminalization and incarceration it’s amazing to me that it seems to be the only solution being offered. The author does provide a more holistic solution, but I can’t say I’m anymore convinced about the roughly $500 change making a big difference.